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Craig Patti Kelly, 1996 Martha Ross Krista Charbonneau, 1996 Arthur Milner Krista Charbonneau, 1997 Bill Jamilner Krista Charbonneau, 1997 Bill Jaml Jamey St., 2ndes charles pavia, 1997 Stewart Lemoine Rosemary Rowe, 1996 Cynthia Grant Carolyn Farrell, 1996 Jim Garrard Seamus Kelleher, 1996 Playwrights Union of Canada 54 Wolseley St., 2nd Floor Toronto, Ontario, CANADADA , M5T 1A5 Tel: (416) 703-0201 / Fax: (416) 703-0059 cdplays@interlog.com / http://www.puc.ca No part of this book, covered by the copyright copyright laws of Canada and all other countries of the Copyright Union, and is subject to royalty. Changes to hereon, may be reproduced or used in any form or by any means  graphic, electronic or mechanical without the prior written permission of the publisher, except for excerpts in a review. Any request for photocopying, recording, taping, or information storage and retrieval systems, of any part of this book shall be directed in writing to: The Canadian Copyright Licensing Agency, 6 Adelaide St East, Suite 900, Toronto, Ontario, CANADA, M5C 1H6, Tel: (416) 868-1620 Playwrights Union of Canada operates w, 6 Adelaide St East, Suite 900, Toronto, Ontario, CANADA, M5C 1H6, Tel: (416) 868-1620. Playwrights Union of Canada operates witx 0R)93A3GwIJbRbRbZb[/c/c,k,ksuk}//&&h the generous assistance of the Canada Council for the Arts, Writing and Publishing Section; the Ontario Arts Council; the Ministry of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation; the Municipality of Metropolitan Toronto, Parks and Recreation; and the City of Toronto, through the Toronto Arts Council. Canadian Cataloguing in Publication Data Rudakoff, Judith Questionable Activities: Canadian Theatre Artists ISBN 1-55173-478-8 (v.1) ISBN 1-55173-488-5 (v.2) 1. Dramatists, Canadian (English) 22222222220th century Interviews * I. Rudakoff, Judith D. PS8177.Q47 1997 C812.5409 C97-931999-4 PR9191.5.Q47 1997 First chapbook edition: November 1997 Printed and bound in Canada Y 4( D5Y;%"!"%+#')!&&$=,+:P)46Z.&<Questionable Activities " Gl5I+hp5I P" HH5I 0" I  " I 5!!C 5   && +J +NOYO/ ,5>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefTABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction by Judith Rudakoff 2 Daniel MacIvor Interview by Paul Halferty 6 Marion de Vries Interview by Sean Baek 10 Pat Bradley Interview by Zena Rudberg 18 Janet Amos Interview by Suzanne Ranson 26 Ronnie Burkett Interview by Emma Humphrey 32 Helen Carmichael Porter Interview by Brad Woods 36 David S. Craig Interview by Patti Kelly 43 Martha Ross Interview by Krista Charbonneau 48 Arthur Milner Interview by Krista Charbonneau 53 Bill James Interview by charles pavia 59 Stewart Lemoine Interview by Rosemary Rowe 64 Cynthia Grant Interview by Carolyn Farrell 67 Jim Garrard Interview by Seamus Kelleher 73 Appendix Model for Canadian Theatre Archive Books 79 Canadian Theatre Archive Books/Resource Library 83 Judith Rudakoff 86 Introduction What began as a class assignment theatre students interviewing theatre professionals has developed (with the help of Playwrights Union of Canada and Playwrights @@R R)Gl@@/P4p@ K nn//N&@QR)@QR)FN PN @WdXN bN dNnNp8 u_vNNNN8ZMMMM8U Canada Press) into a resource tool for a wide range of people who share an interest in contemporary Canadian theatre. In this volume (and in the previous one), you will discover both facts and opinions, offered by artists, administrators, and other members of the theatre community. The chronicling of Canadian theatre history, through recounting seminal events, recalling companies now gone and those still in operation, and speaking out on issues, is part of an ongoing transformation. We belong to a theatre culture moving from oral to written history: validating our present by acknowledging our past, thereby ensuring our future. And who better to spark the discussion than the next generation of theatre professionals? (Many of the interviewers who participated in Questionable Activities werent even born when the tumultuous coming-of-age epoch of Canadian theatre was in its heyday in the late 1960s and early 1970s!) The interviewed subjects cross several eras of Canadian theatre evolution, and topics move from puppetry, clown, and storytelling, to funding, artistic direction, and the ever present quandary over exactly what constitutes a Canadian play. The interviewers did their own (guided) research, prepared questions and contacted and arranged meetings with their subjects. They also transcribed their interview tapes and did some preliminary rough editing. I then edited and prepared the material for publication. This joint project of professionals and students, between Playwrights Union of Canada (PUC) and York Universitys Department of Theatre, has resulted in this publication, a testament to the power of collaborative creativity. In fact, York Universitys Department of Theatre and PUC have enjoyed a cooperative relationship for a number of years. For example: each week, instead of another course in another classroom on campus, playwriting students in their graduating year hold class with me at PUC, at the core of a cluster of theatres, in the heart of the city. Also, PUC now houses, in their freely accessible Reference/Reading Room, a student-donated library of over three dozen Canadian Theatre Archive books, filled with collated information and research material on specific artists, organizations, festivals, and more. (A full list of available books is appended at the end of this book.) The material in these conversations is copyrighted by the interviewers and is for use only in resch projects, not for publication of any sort. If youd like permission to use quotations from any of the interviews for a unearch projects, not for publication of any sort. If youd like permission to use quotations from any of the interviews for a university term paper, please contact the interviewer and/or document the usage as if you were using a published book. Any other use is an infringement of copyright law. Same goes for photocopying. Please respect the researchers and artists involved, and ask for permission. It wont be withheld unreasonably. Thanks to Angela Rebeiro, Playwrights Union of Canada, Jodi Armstrong, and fla Rebeiro, Playwrights Union of Canada, Jodi Armstrong, Victoria Ridout, and Michael Petrasek for their support of this project and for providing a home for our Canadian Theatre Archive Books. Special thanks to Rob White for hil thanks to Rob White for his editorial assistance (courtesy of the York Graduate Programme in Theatre), to Serena Dessen for proofreading, and to the artists involved who gave of their time unstintingly. No thanks to the few theatre artists who refused to grant interviews, answer qquestions, or in any way offer time or insights to students of Canadian Theatre. Very special thanks to the Theatre Department at York University, the faculty and staff who support the teaching of Contemporary Canadian Theatre to the next generation of Canadian Theatre Artists. Judith Rudakoff (Dr.) Associate Professor Theatre Department, York University Member of Playwrights Union of Canada Daniel MacIvor Interview by Paul Halferty TorDaniel MacIvor is an award-winning performer/writeon of Canada Daniel MacIvor Interview by Paul Halferty Toronto, 1997. Daniel MacIvor is an award-winning performer/writer/director/ producer/film and video-maker. Selected Plays The Soldier Dreams, 1997 Here Lies Henry, 1996-97 The Emo Journals, 1995 The Lorca Play, 1992 This is A Play, 1992 Jump, 1992 House, 1991 2-2 Tango, 1991 Never Swim Alone, 1991 Somewhere I Have Never y, 1992 This is A Play, 1992 Jump, 1992 House, 1991 2-2 Tango, 1991 Never Swim Alone, 1991 Somewhere I Have Never Travelled, 1990 Wild Abandon, 1990 Yes I Am and Who Are You?, 1989 See Bob Run, 1989 Paul Halferty In your published introduction to 2-2 Tango you write, 2-2 Tango comes from an obsession with the beauty and banality of language, and the belief that a TTheatre is about Performance. (Of course, performance has nothing to do with what we have come to understand as acting...) Daniel MacIvor I address that more directly in the new Forward to the published version of House. I learned a lot by doing Heaniel MacIvor I address that more directly in the new Forward to the published version of House. I learned a lot by doing Herep;`" T?_|@ k|>l?w|<x?|:?|8?|6?|4?|2?|0?|.?|, Lies Henry and I wanted to write something that addressed the performance element from my current perspective. Performance refers to the presence on stage of the actor as opposed to the presence on stage of the character. Weve been working towards a natural presence on stage, a living, breathing being. To accomplish this, you start with the actor, the person, not the character that exists on paper. Its a mistake to lead actors to think that they have to create a history for their character through some sort of manipulation of ideas on paper. This is just busy work. An actors responsibility is to touch their own soul, to stop thinking. As human beings, we arent aware of our motivation. We have to trust that if we know the physical reality of our world and if we have a physical language for a role or performance then our brains will become attuned and we wont have to think before we do. PH Is this method/style of working related to writing and performing your own work? DM It comes as a result of writing my own stuff, but I can also get that kind of performance from an actor. You cant actually tell an actor, Dont think, but the people with whom weve been working are starting to understand that the process involves bringing their own persona onto the stage and finding nuances and parts of themselves that they can tap into. Now, in terms of writing my own stuff and performing it, well, that eliminates... PH The middle man? DM Yes, the middle man. Ive said that many times. This method also leads to a different kind of thinking process in performance. In Here Lies Henry, for example, my fear and nervousness as a performer become Henrys fear and nervousness. We are one and the same. The fear creates a tension: Can Daniel reach Henry, can Daniel get there? Thats the negative tension. The positive tension should be between the audience and me. The more of the negative tension that exists, the less positive tension there will be and its that positive tension thats the object of theatre. PH In theoretical terms, I, as interviewer and as Paul, am performing at least two roles right now. Is this similar? DM Yeah, sure. If you enter as an actor then thats just one more layer that you have to knock out of the way before you can get to the point: communication. There is also an element of vaudeville in something like 2-2 Tango, which is very presentational. As my work has progressed, there is less of that. For example, in Here Lies Henry the concept incorporates the stage. This style really began with House. The Soldier Dreams incorporates three realities. One of these levels is a fourth wall reality which uses dialogue, through which the actors cross. In Mass, a new piece, the style is entirely fourth wall, to the extreme. The piece operates in real time, and the audience is never acknowledged. Its an anti-theatrical work in that its a ninety-minute dinner conversation observed by an audience. PH Does the audience have to be acknowledged bbe actors to qualify as performance, or is it more a questioy the actors to qualify as performance, or is it more a question of what youve called non-thinking acting? DM A couple of years ago I would have said the former, but not now. Im starting ess is not about talking about big ideas, large themes or definto see that the kind of performance we can get through this process is not about talking about big ideas, large themes or defininB" , pBCP" CACCPBD" Dg metaphors. What we focus on with the actors is the subtlety of performance, of who they are in relation to who the person on the page is, and where the two can meet. In a sense, the work is about text but nothing exists without performance. Its not like Mamet, which is about delivery of difficult text. The work we are doing is about the performance of a text. PH Written or physical text? DM I am referring specifically to written text. Mamet and even Beckett are often about exploding heads; its all about the mind. What we are talking about is physiological; its about the psychology through the body and it is about the body. Our work is about what it means for a woman to smooth her skirt and how that subtle action can be more important than a three page monologue about how she feels about her body. PH Could you talk a bit about The Emo Journals and The Lorca Play, which, unlike your other work, were more based on image than text. DM The Emo Journals was an exploration of non-text based theatre: the only text came from people making sounds. It explored the physicality of theatre and non dance. It was about the way people move through a space. People didnt understand it because they were too busy trying to understand it, instead of just experiencing it. The Emo Journals was a meditation on death. It also contained a simple story which people missed because they were searching for a mystery inside the story. The Lorca Play was a deconstruction of a great play by Lorca called The House of Bernarda Alba. We wanted to produce a play with a lot of women in it, using gestural movement, a type of non-dance dance. What we discovered in the process of creating the piece was that many of the actors were flipping back and forth between playing characters from Lorcas play and simply being themselves on stage. There were three moments in the play which we referred to as free time, where the actresses would refer to one another using their own names, and speak their own opinions and feelings about Lorca and his work. I played the role of Lorca inside the play and the actresses reacted to me both as Lorca and as Daniel MacIvor. Exploring these kinds of concepts of performance are important to us. PH Where are you moving in terms of performance style? DM On a practtical level, Im trying to marry what I consider Theatre of Integrity (which some people call alternative theatre or small theatre) with Commercial Theatre. I see Theatre of Integrity as work for the sake of the work as opposed to work for the money. PH How do these ideas about theatre styles and performance relate to your increasing work in film? DM Im such a baby film-maker, and Im learning, learning, learning all the time. The work Ive done in theatre is certainly informing my film work, which to this point has been mostly performance-based. Im starting to figure out what the camera is and how it exists. We are doing a piece called Until I Hear From You, about the presence of the camera. The camera is alive in the film, operated by the characters. Until I Hear From You is about performance, but performance for the camera. We want to explore the tension that the camera creates when the actor doesnt acknowledge it. Because the camera is so close, the tension is intense. The work and the exploration are still about the relationship between audience and actor, funnelled through the camera. PH Who makes up your company? DM Sherrie Johnson, my partner and producer in the company. Sherrie has a deep appreciation for the work and is more like my manager. Daniel Brooks, Caroline Gillis (with whom Ive worked for many years), Richard Feren (who creates sound and music) and various other visiting energies. In some ways, our company is comprised of anyone in the community who is trying to work towards the same goals, including Tracy Wright and Don McKellar of Augusta Company. PH Can you comment on collaboration, specifically with Brooks, Gillis, Nadia Ross, Ken McDougall... DM Theatre is a collaborative medium. Film allows directors to be auteurs, with credits like, A film by.... This is very misleading, because even a film is, of course, by everybody. There is a constant struggle between the Ego and the Actual: the Actual is collaborative and the Ego wants to claim credit and responsibility. In my experience, we are artistically stronger together than we are separately. Daniel Brooks and I share a complicated relationship in terms of that struggle. In the solo work, he has been frustrated because so much focus has been on me as the performer. We are working towards rectifying that. The relationship with Ken McDougall was also a remarkable struggle, one that included much confrontation which added tension to the work... PH Tension being a good thing? DM The word tension does keep coming up! My work with Ken had an edge. The work was rectangular and had a cold, sharp edge. The work with Daniel has heart and soul. Never Swim Alone and 2-2 Tango had heart and soul, but within a steel box or a steel cube. Caroline Gillis is, in a sense, a muse. We are creating parts specifically for her and the work she did in The Soldier Dreams is the best Ive ever seen her do. Nadia Ross is a wild woman: it was the most tumultuous collaboration I have ever had. Nadia was not interested in embracing the audience the way I was. She preferred to confront the audience, to acknowledge difference. Much as I pretend to be confrontational on stage, I am more interested in acknowledging sameness. My most fruitful collaboration has been with Daniel, and its because we share many of the same concerns about humanity and about life. I believe that it is only our sameness that will lead us to any kind of survival or salvation. We must acknowledge that we are breathing the same air, are under the same sky, having thoughts that are frighteningly the same. Marion de Vries Interview by Sean Baek Toronto, Cahoots Theatre Projects, October 9, 1996. Marion de Vries is a director, playwright and was Artistic Director of Cahoots Theatre Projects, from January 1995 to September 1997. Selected Plays Jumping Mouse (with Columpa Bobb), 1998 big face, 1996 Sean Baek Beverly Yhap founded Cahoots Theatre Projects in 199you speak a bit about the early years and Beverlys work? Marion de Vries Beverly is a writer who founded the compa86. Can you speak a bit about the early years and Beverlys work? Marion de Vries Beverly is a writer who founded the company " Qr])iinuuljhfdb`^ intending to create better, more equitable opportunities for writers. The early mandate, while not as specific as our current one, included references to producing work of artists of diverse cultures, and a commitment to work interculturally. In 1986, Beverly produced Vancouver playwright Jesse Glenn Bodyans Skull Riders and in 1988 followed with The Phoenix Cabaret. The latter was a set of two plays translated from Chinese, written by Xie Min, directed by Peter Hinton, designed by Denyse Karn (who won a Dora Mavor Moore Award for her work) and starring Jane Luk and Dawn Obokata. The final play that Beverly produced as Artistic Director of Cahoots was Daniel David Moses Big Buck City in 1991. I was involved in that production, first as a volunteer fund-raiser and later as an actor. Another of Beverlys accomplishments while at Cahoots was organizing a two-day national conference for artists in 1990 called Write About Now!. This seminal event was for what were then called playwrights from visible minorities and one of the topics discussed was that particular term and its usage. The conference was attended by writers from across the country as well as actors, directors, designers and more. Ironically, it took place on the weekend that the Meech Lake Accord fell apart. Write About Now! was a true vision of what Canada is, or what it could be. In 1992, Beverly moved to Vancouver where she continues to work. SB Isnt Theatre Ontario currently producing an annual conference similar to Write About Now!? MdV Theatre Ontario produces a yearly event called Breaking Ground, but Write About Now! was the first conference of its kind. SB What made you decide to go into the theatre? MdV I decided to go into the theatre professionally when I was thirty years old, though I had wanted to study theatre when I got out of high school. I was accepted into a variety of theatre schools at the time, but I am second generation Dutch, and I grew up in a fairly Calvinist family, so theatre was not considered respectable. I got an undergraduate degree in Geography in the Environmental Studies programme at University of Waterloo, though originally I was enrolled in a Recreation programme. It took me nine years to finish my degree, and during that time I lived in Alberta for several years. I got married, I got divorced, I drove tractor trailer all over North America, I worked for Alberta Parks, and in road construction, and in a feed mill. Ive done everything except waitressing and prostitution! In the last couple of years that I lived in Alberta, I worked for the Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Commission, putting together a volunteer programme. After that, I taught Life Skills, Job Search Skills and Self-Esteem for Medicine Hat College (Brooks Campus). The whole time I was teaching, I kept thinking, Im such a fraud! Im such a fucking fraud! because I didnt have my shit together and I was certainly not doing what I really wanted to do. Then I got involved with local community theatre in Brooks, doing musicals. I became good friends with Sandy Nicholls, who was a graduate of the very first class at the National Theatre School of Canada in Montreal, and she encouraged me. Then I drove my pickup truck across the Prairies, auditioned and got into York University. The first thing I participated in after graduation was the Write About Now! Conference at Cahoots. There I met people with whom I started to work professionally, like Lynda Hill (who was at Nightwood Theatre at the time), Sally Han, Wayson Choy (who was president of the Cahoots Board of Directors), Paul Thompson, Maria Campbell. I started volunteering for the company. From there, I moved to Assistant Directing (on a volunteer basis) Big Buck City. When one of the actors quit on the last day of rehearsal, I stood in. The company couldnt find another actor to take over the role on such short notice, so we dyed my hair black and I ended up playing a native character for the run of the show. I joined the Board of Directors at Cahoots, and dramaturged and directed shows for the company. Then in 1995, we needed an Artistic Director, so I resigned my Board position and took on the job. The Artistic Producer, Dilara Ally, had left the position to work on her own play Mango Chutney and to pursue her studies at the University of Toront ":;:A*0R)-P,S:; K IIG!G#E-E/C9C;AEAG?Q?S=]=_;i;k9u9w77553311//--+Ɂ+ˁ)Ձ)ׁ''%%##o and I was already working as producer of Cahoots current show, Marty Chans Mom, Dad, Im Living With A White Girl. I saw the job as a challenge, I believed in the company mandate and I needed a job! SB Youre a playwright as well as a director. MdV I wrote a lot when I was younger. I rediscovered writing when I was at York University in Creative Writing and then Playwriting courses. Somewhere along the line I discovered (and if you read big face, youll understand what I mean...) the power of writing with my left hand. I am left-handed but I was forced to write with my right hand in Grade One. One day a few years ago I just got so frustrated that I put the pen in my left hand. Thats when I really started to write and now I do all my creative writing with my left hand. Directly after university I also got involved with a womens collective and we did a lot of creation that involved improvisation. I was also co-writer on an adaptation of Aristophanes The Birds, called Cuckooland. I started big face (my first produced play) in 1991 during the weekly informal gatherings for emerging playwrights at Nightwood Theatre called SpringWrights. After Sally Han heard a reading of big face at Nightwoods Groundswell Festival in 1994, she commissioned me to write a touring show for audiences from kindergarten to Grade Three for Young Peoples Theatre (where she was Associate Artistic Director at the time). One of the ideas I suggested was an adaptation of the native legend Jumping Mouse. My co-writer on that project is Columpa Bobb. Our process started with me writing all the odd-numbered scenes and Columpa writing all the even-numbered scenes. We took the work to the Banff Playwrights Colony and it is being produced by Young Peoples Theatre in their 1997-98 season. SB How is the Cahoots Theatre Projects mandate different than it was five years ago? MdV When Beverly Yhap left, the company almost died. Then the Board, under Wayson Choy as president, brought in Lynda Hill and Jean Yoon as Co-Artistic Directors. Those two women resurrected the company. They re-worked the mandate to articulate the goals of developing and producing work by theatre artists of diverse cultural backgrounds, of exploring, challenging and bridging cultural and theatrical traditions. We also produce culturally specific work, and/or artistically, we try to match a playwright from one culture with a director from another. Within that parameter, in new play development, we try to keep dramaturgs open to processes of development that arent necessarily traditional in form or scope. Part of our problem within the professional theatre is that we are often perceived as a community theatre. We are wholly professional and our first and foremost goal is to develop and produce Canadian theatre that reflects the culture in which we live. We firmly believe that in a community like Toronto, that culture is not strictly white/WASP. People also tend to think of Cahoots as politically correct theatre. What those people fail to recognize is that we are professional artists. Because of the dominant culture, artists who get their work developed and produced at Cahoots often cannot get it accepted at the so-called mainstream theatre companies because of systemic barriers. Their work is art. Professional art. I was recently asked, Wouldnt you get really pissed off if other companies started producing the work you do? No! One of my goals as an Artistic Director is to convince other Artistic Directors to produce the work we are developing but lack the funding to produce. Think about the audiences that would bring into theatres; audiences that are not normally attracted to a particular theatre because that theatre hasnt put their stories or even them on the stage. The Cahoots mandate should be incorporated into each and every professional theatre in this city and across Canada. SB Is it possible that some Cahoots projects may reinforce cultural stereotypes? MdV Like Mom, Dad, Im Living With A White Girl? But remember that Chan is making a specific point when his play switches back and forth between the domesticity of a second generation Chinese boy living with a white girl of Dutch descent (and his fear of telling this to his orthodox Chinese family who want him to marry within his culture and continue the traditional family occupation of acupuncture) and the highly theatrical scenes evoking the B-movie genre and their stereotypical presentation of Asians, like the Yellow Claw character. In a sense, Chan is exploiting the exploiters. SB Cahoots actively develops new plays by new artists from diverse cultures in an intercultural environment. What criteria do you use at Cahoots to select plays and/or playwrights for development? MdV Our Artistic Advisory is a group of professional artists who meet at least once a year to discuss the company in general, our mandate, our activities, problems we might be encountering, our goals, etcetera. I want to emphasize that this Advisory group is artist-based. From this group, we draw members for the Selection Committee for the New Play Development Series. The development process starts with a workshop series we call LIFT OFF!. We advertise nationally for submissions, which dont have to be completed scripts: we look for artistic uniqueness and potential in the writing. The Selection Committee short-lists about ten plays for LIFT OFF! and from there four to six scripts are chosen. LIFT OFF! operates with budgets that have ranged from $20,000 to $25,000. Participating artists are paid Equity scale wages or better and we try to offer each script a weeks worth of development and workshopping spread over a month (playwrights need time between the actor days, as we call them, for re-thinking and re-writing). SB Would you say that Cahoots develops plays that are about a specific community and how that community connects with other Canadians? MdV One of the things Cahoots does is develop plays that deal specifically with experiences of, for example, immigrants in Canada. Or second generation Canadians. Mom, Dad, Im Living With A WhY2ؠ0AYYY1Y122022YZ9" " 1Y" 1Y22YZؠ" ite Girl is one example. So is Noran Bang: The Yellow Room by Korean playwright M. J. Kang. One of the plays were doing in our Double Dare Series is Tarek Ghalebs Once Upon a Time in a Park, which is an English translation of an Egyptian play written in Arabic. This Canadian version is quite different than the original. Though Ghalebs play isnt about the Canadian experience directly, it is an example of how we are introducing playwrights from other cultures, who were professional artists in their home country, into Canadas professional theatre. SB How difficult is it to attract audiences when your competition takes the form of the mega-musical, or high profile plays from the American repertoire, reproduced here with Canadian casts? MdV We dont have a great deal of money for promotion or publicity, but we usually have houses that are between 75% and 100% full. Mom, Dad, Im Living With A White Girl sold out completely. Much of the work we develop is suitable to mainstream theatre. It all depends on who is programming the mainstage seasons. I guess you could say that mainstage defines mainstream. And its also a question of assimilation versus diversity. We are probably the only theatre company whose audiences get reviewed. Cahoots is, in a sense, challenging the status quo. The work we do should be produced more often and in larger theatres to accommodate the audiences who want to see it. On the positive side, there has been some movement forward. Weve seen Factory Theatre producing Andrew Moodies Riot. And Theatre Passe Muraille picking up The Moon and Dead Indians which became The Indian Medicine Shows by Daniel David Moses. And Tarragon Theatre producing M. J. Kangs Blessings. And Marvin Ishmaels company producing works like Wipe That Smile and The Playboy of the West Indies in alternative spaces, not the mainstream theatres. They will do a show for a weekend, get thousands of people to see it. On the other side, I went to the Annual General Meeting of the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres last June and I was blown away by the fear I perceived. PACT and the Toronto Theatre Alliance published a booklet called Sight Lines about how to make your theatre culturally diverse. It suggests that this process should be non-threatening to existing staff. It suggests focus group activities and lists sample questions to ask staff. There is maybe one page devoted to the Artistic Director considering mounting plays by playwrights of colour or becoming more open in terms of casting. To me, thats really what its all about: its not just about hiring a person to sit in your Box Office. Its about taking a serious look at what and who are on stage: the actors, directors, designers, all the artists you are hiring. SB Cahoots had to cancel M. J. Kangs Noran Bang: The Yellow Room, originally scheduled for production in September of 1996. What happened? MdV Why dont you ask Mike Harris that question? In Fall of 1995, the provincial government of Ontario cut more than 30% from the budget of the Ontario Arts Council. Those cuts have finally reached us in the theatre community. At the same time, Cahoots was encouraged to apply for what is called Operating Funding, which is stable, ongoing funding from the OAC. This would have meant more money, in terms of salaries. We didnt get the Operating Funding. No companies who applied for it for the first time got it, and a lot of small companies who have been established for years (for example, Theatre Smith-Gilmour, Platform 9, Crows Theatre) lost their Operating Funding completely. Theyre also struggling now to continue. We were fortunate in that we received a Project Grant of $10,000. In any event, we had to come to a swift decision. M. J. was being produced at the Tarragon at exactly the same time (I dont know why they scheduled Blessings in the same slot: they knew about our production...) and it came down to either producing a play by M. J. Kang at the same time as Tarragon was producing another play by her, or waiting a year and instead using the funding we did get to produce two new plays by emerging playwrights. Thats the painful decision we had to make and we chose the latter. We want to produce Noran Bang: The Yellow Room next season. SB In many cultures, language is at the root of culture. And yet, when you produce a play about, say, Korean culture, you must tell the story in English for the Canadian audience. Many aspects of the culture may be lost in the translation. How do you think this affects the artistic intention or creativity of the playwright? MdV Marty Chan, Betty Quan (playwright of Mother Tongue) and M. J. Kang can either not speak their mother tongue, or barely so. Writing their plays has been, for the three of them, a process of learning and incorporating their language. SB Sally Han, director of Mom, Dad, Im Living With A White Girl has been quoted as saying, ...although Cahoots is a multiracial, multicultural theatre company, it has its roots in English language, English Canadian theatre. The fact that we work in English says something about our aesthetic values. And the decision to develop playwrights, rather than create stories through improvisation or transmit stories orally reflects a western, English tradition. Do you agree with this? MdV I disagree with one aspect of that statement, though on the whole its accurate. When I worked with M. J., I researched Korean culture, life and history. During that research, I discovered that the first Europeans to enter Korea were ship-wrecked Dutch men. That was a personal connection for me with the work. Rather than trying to force M. J. to work along Aristotelian lines, I encouraged her to keep writing from her gut, to write dreams and memories and impulses. And the work at that stage didnt necessarily have to start conforming to linear form. In our first interview, I asked M. J., What are the traditional dance forms? What are the traditional music forms? Jean Yoon, who was the Assistant Dramaturg, joined the developmental process and we started to explore using those elements right from the start. Sally Han has a really strong base in Aristotelian models: shes a structuralist. SB Is Canadian Theatre going to survive the 90s? In what form? MdV Hey, theatre has always survived! Anywhere. All over the world. The challenge is that we must be the voice of the spirit that says, in times of struggle, This is not going to swallow us. This could be a time of transformation for Canadian Theatre, with the economic difficulties, the multinational agenda and the Americanization of our culture as challenges. SB What does the future hold for you professionally? MdV Ill continue to write plays and produce more collective, alternative work. I want to bring Cahoots to the point where we are stable financially, where we can plan at least two projects each year, where we can hire artistic and managerial staff. I could see myself becoming Artistic Director of a larger theatre with more resources sometime in the future. Everyone goes through a phase where you ask yourself, What the hell am I doing? I havent got any work lined up for the next six months. Im starving. I cant pay my rent. At that point, some of us make the decision to stick with theatre. I made the decision to go into theatre when I was thirty years old, and I know that this is what I want to do. Its what Ive always wanted to do and its where I belong. I live a life of poverty. Momentarily. But thats y choice. Its where my values are. Live theatre, live performance, live people are so important in this day and age where peomy choice. Its where my values are. Live theatre, live performance, live people are so important in this day and age where peopl۠0ۀ0+ݐ@"   " pY2 +Xe only know how to communicate with each other through machines. Pat Bradley Interview by Zena Rudberg Toronto, January 17, 1997. Pat Bradley is the Executive Director of the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres. Zena Rudberg How long have you held the position of Executive Director at PACT? Pat Bradley Almost five years. ZR How did you come to this position? P Immediately before, I was a theatre officer and arts funder for Metro Cultural Affairs. Before that, I worked for the provincB Immediately before, I was a theatre officer and arts funder for Metro Cultural Affairs. Before that, I worked for the provinciaAEAG?Q?R]^]akmwyl government, also as an arts funder. A colleague had said to me, You can never stay with the government for more than five years. If you do, you lose touch with the community. I was almost at that mark and wanted to move into the field, but I dont have the experience to become, for example, a General Manager at a theatre company. ZR Has PACT changed since its incorporation in 1976? PB There have been enormous changes, reflecting the changes in the theatre community. Our membership has certainly grown. Today we have approximately 111 member companies while originally it was more like thirty. Part of the reason for our growth is that there are more theatres operating today, but initially PACT was seen as an organization for the more established theatres. We have still more work to do in terms of broadening our membership base with smaller companies. One of the original purposes of PACT was to negotiate the Canadian Theatre Agreement (CTA) with Canadian Actors Equity Association (CAEA). Then we expanded our activities to include lobbying and advocacy. In the era of Mike Harris provincial government in Ontario, the atmosphere for advocacy has changed, and now we work more collaboratively with other service organizations and colleagues. In fact, we now share offices with Theatre Ontario. There has also been much change in the area of labour relations. The establishment of the CTA was the first time that Canadian theatre managers had any say as to contract terms and working conditions. Before that, the generally imposed standards came from American models and examples. Weve moved a long way towards making the CTA a bilateral agreement, as opposed to what used to be called the Equity Rules. ZR What is the most important role that PACT fulfills? PB We did a survey of our membership last year and discovered that what ranked highest was a combination of functions, all having to do with labour relations. All other areas, including communication, professional development and advocacy ranked a fair amount lower in terms of membership priority. I agree that PACTs involvement in labour relations is what the community couldnt live without: somebodys got to negotiate, or CAEA will completely dictate all the terms like they did in the old days. For each theatre to negotiate on their own would be ridiculous. ZR Is there anything more that you think PACT should provide for its members? PB Not really. We cant do, for example, marketing, like the Toronto Theatre Alliance because were a national organization. Theatre Ontario covers training programmes with incredible expertise and experience. We could increase our service to the membership in several areas and Im working of a couple of little projects to do just that. The most common enquiry that we get is, What is the average salary for an Artistic Director in an F House? And we have no idea what the answer is. Nor do we know how many PACT members offer benefits packages for their employees. So were doing a membership survey of benefits and compensation of senior employees including Artistic Directors, General Managers and Production Managers. ZR Couldnt that information be obtained from CAEA? PB Equity has the rates according to the CTA. But the Artistic Director is hired by a Board of Directors who donfrom CAEA? PB Equity has the rates according to the CTA. But the Artistic Director is hired by a Board of Directors who dont Z J0y0y" 1Yy" yp" use the CTA as their negotiating guideline. We want to know the average salary; the standard, not the standard minimum according to the CTA. ZR What other projects are you working on? PB Were creating sample job descriptions. Sometimes, when long-time employees leave a theatre after, say, twenty years on the job, the hiring committee has no written reference. This is the type of project that will give our membership tools: theyre not visionary or even massively exciting projects, but they are going to be very useful in the day to day running of theatre companies. Were trying to set professional standards. We call our work labour relations but in our negotiations and agreements with Playwrights Union of Canada (PUC), Associated Designers of Canada (ADC) and CAEA were actually setting the standard to which the whole profession will at least aspire if not adhere. Theres no reason why we shouldnt also provide that service for the people who run the theatres as well. ZR PACT is a national organization based in Toronto. Do members across the country outside Toronto feel adequately represented? PB Thats always a concern of the PACT Board of Directors. Im conscious of not being too Toronto-centric, which is difficult because of the size of the Toronto theatre community. We also receive a portion of our funding from the municipal and provincial level. The members in British Columbia, well, theyre like Californians, alienated from the rest of the world. You go over the mountains and its a different world. But the BC members are the people who have said to me, I couldnt feel better represented by PACT unless I was actually in Toronto. Now, I dare say that the Newfoundland membership doesnt feel quite as close to us for a lot of reasons. For example, they dont operate under the CTA. Part of the reason we are able to reach out is our Board of twenty-six members. Representation is both regional and according to size and type of theatre company: from A houses to developmental theatre companies to summer theatres. As long as the representatives channel information back and forth from Toronto to their members and vice versa, PACT will continue to function nationally. Approximately 40-50% of the anglophone professional theatre community in Canada is based iSu" 0 t" 8 78S9S9u0" p>Spu" 0tP" 4"S'9"  t0" pn Toronto, so it made sense to place PACT here. Toronto is the cultural capital of Canada. As an ex-Montrealer, its taken me a long time to deal with that concept. ZR How would you define a Canadian play? PB PACT as an organization doesnt define either the term professional or the term Canadian. In the field of visual arts funding, its simple: the only work that gets funded is by Canadian visual artists. Its similar in the literary arts, where only Canadian publishers who are publishing Canadian writers get grants. For music, its trickier, because the vast majority of the funding goes to orchestras and orchestras dont play a lot of orchestral Canadian music. In the dance world, a lot of the choreography is European in the ballet companies (though not in modern or contemporary dance companies). In the theatre, there has been, over the past two and a half years, an ongoing debate about how to define Canadian theatre creation. Does this mean a play must have been written by a Canadian to be considered a Canadian play? Although PUC would definitely support that definition, our members have fought long and hard against it. For example, if director Richard Rose produces and directs a play by Englands Howard Barker, he brings to the play a particular Richard Rose sensibility. When Rose does a Barker play, its as Canadian as someone doing the new Judith Thompson play at the Tarragon Theatre. Richard Rose is using Canadian artists and its a Canadian interpretation. I dont know about that definition, but certainly Canadian authorship is not seen by my membership as a whole as the primary criterion for classification as a Canadian play, or for definition of what Canadian theatre is. ZR Do you think that Canadas professional theatre is raising the international profile of our artists? PB Yes, though its a slow process. Were cultural nationalists, so we shouldnt be surprised when other people are as well. When I was in London, England four years ago, there were no less than four Canadian plays on stage in prominent theatres, including Judith Thompsons Lion in the Streets and Brad Frasers Unidentified Human Remains and The True Nature of Love. Time Out did a feature article about the invasion of the Canadians. Even so, if I asked a cosmopolitan German to name the great theatre countries in the world, I dont think Canada would be on the list. ZR How does PACT define professionalism in theatre, or ...engaged professionally in the creation of theatre in Canada? PB There is a Canada Council five par0 A0op" 0o@" 0    t definition of professionalism that includes criteria such as professional training of some sort (though not necessarily at the National Theatre School of Canada or at a university), recognition by peers (through awards, or employment or a history of production), full-time commitment to the profession (there is acknowledgement that it may not be possible to fully fund oneself through artistic employment). ZR Can amateur shows be produced in theatres that belong to PACT? PB Venues and theatre companies are two different entities. Last year, The Grand Theatre in London, Ontario rented their theatre to a high school production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. It sold out completely and the group had to add four more performances. The Grand was purely the venue, renting to a group. ZR So, for example, if Factory Theatre is in financial difficulty and decide to use their theatre as a rental venue, they are able to do so? PB Yes. Where it becomes tricky is that CAEA contends that if a production is advertised in a members season brochure, then the member is responsible for ensuring that all contracting is undertaken according to the CTA. PACT disagrees, because we uphold the principle that a rental is simply a rental of the venue to another producer. Heres an example. Last season Young Peoples Theatre presented a rental production of Polkeroo, a character from an Ontario television programme. It was a big hit, with four year olds rushing the stage, creating a mosh pit and dancing along with Polkeroo! The show had been bought as a package, publicized in the YPT season brochure. Whoever owns the rights to Polkeroo and was producing the show, cast and directed it with non-Equity members. The issue of venue and company being separable in terms of CTA and Equity is an issue. ZR Can a PACT member be expelled from the organization? PB Members have only ever been expelled for non-payment of dues. Our constitution has provisions for expulsion, and this can occur if the membership as a whole or the Board of Directors vote to do so subject to natural justice. (This means that the member in question must be given the opportunity to defend themselves and make their case properly.) Weve recently discussed just this issue, because PACT has never had anyy to defend themselves and make their case properly.) Weve recently discussed just this issue, because PACT has never had any k@ 0E 0H\78i" ind of formal code of ethics guidelines. There have been several times since 1976 when the issue of ethics has come up. The first time this occurred was when the Artistic Directorate of Urjo Kareda, Martha Henry, Pam Brighton and Peter Moss at Stratford who had been appointed jointly were summarily fired. The second time was when the Board of Directors of Canadian Stage fired Artistic Director Guy Sprung and General Manager Lynn Osmond. ZR If a member is expelled from PACT, or withdraws, can they be reinstated? PB Yes. They have to go through the same application process as new members. If theyve been expelled for non-payment of dues, they must pay the back dues owing. ZR Are dues calculated on a sliding scale? PB Yes. Dues are based on overall budget. The formula is the total revenue of the theatre times 0.00185 (or almost two tenths of one percent). There are ceilings at various levels, so the absolute maximum for any company is $4,600 per year. ZR PACT and CAEA are currently discussing ways and means of promoting Canadian actors. How will this be achieved? PB In negotiations with CAEA last year, when it became apparent that there wasnt a lot of money available to increase salaries, CAEA said, Well, if you cant give us more money, give us respect. Our first reaction was, What? Do you think we dont respect you? What they meant was that they wanted, for example, all Equity members names on every theatre poster. We said something like, Ill do whatever it takes to sell tickets. If the playwright is going to sell tickets because my audience loves that playwright, the playwrights name is going to appear on the poster. If an actress name sells tickets to my audience, I will have her name on the poster. I am not going to put the Stage Managers name on the poster because the Stage Manager will not sell one single ticket. Many of the mid-range theatres across the country (Tarragon, Passe Muraille, Touchstone, for example) do bill everybody. We didnt get very far in this debate. We did give some concessions on increases in billing and we agreed to set up a task force. The problem will be finding common ground about the real and actual purpose of billing. ZR Is PACT Communications separate from the organization in terms of management or operations? PB PACT Communications is a separately incorporated organization which was founded to publish the series called Canada On Stage, which ceased publication in 1988. Its a charitable organization, which PACT itself is not (PACT is, however, a not-for-profit organization). The same personnel operate both organizations. ZR Other than through publications and Annual General Meetings, how does PACT support the development of Canadian theatre companies? PB Through additional regional meetings which are held three or four times annually that focus on such topics as the changes to the CTA, audience development, Board liability and responsibility, fund-raising. The success of these meetings depends entirely on the regional involvement and cooperation. ZR What motivated PACT to share offices with Theatre Ontario? PB Many things, including overlap of people who use our facilities and our resources. We wanted to be able to provide a kind of one-stop shopping for the theatre community. Finances were also a consideration. We now share a staff member, computer equipment, a photocopier. Theatre Ontario and PACT are happy with the relationship weve forged, the money weve saved, the information we share. We are both here to serve the community and thats been our primary motivation. ZR How would you diagnose the current health of Canadian theatre? PB Probably better than the health of Canadian life in general. Canadian theatre has arthritis, but its not on its death-bed. In terms of indigenous theatre, lets rememberr that its really only existed in this form for around forty years. This is a baby industry, a baby sector compared to England or France or the USA. The founding of The Canada Council, Manitoba Theatre Centre, Stratford Festival are all within my lifetime. Thats not so long ago. We have some fierce challenges to face in the arts and cultural communities, but were like teenagers: we want our independence and we want to grow, yet were still really insecure and fear change. ZR How have the government funding cuts affected PACT as an organization? PB We get the smallest grant in the provincial Arts Service Organization (ASO) programme. When I started at PACT we were receiving $10,220 and now weve been cut back to around $6,000 for next year. That programmmme. When I started at PACT we were receiving $10,220 and now weve been cut back to around $6,000 for next year. That programme -x--: -:::PHH-:0:was slashed when Harris took over the provincial government. We got cut by 10% in the first year, 40% the second year, were expecting a further 12% cut this year: thats a 62% cut to funding. The programme probably wont exist within two years. At the federal level were in an odd position. Were in the category of Service Organization, and in the Canada Councils Blue Book theres a blanket statement that Service Organizations would no longer be prioritized, nor would they be given operating funds. All that might be funded would be projects for activities that directly contributed to the creation, production and dissemination of Canadian art. Our total yearly budget is between $200,000-$250,000, so our starting level of funding under this programme of $48,000 was between one quarter and one fifth of our total budget. That is a substantial amount. Last year, we were cut back to $24,000, but also received project funding of $24,000. We dont know how to predict or forecast for next year. We could get zero or we could get $48,000. Or anything in between. We have fewer staff than we used to. We have less rent to pay on our office space. We have two Board meetings a year (usually February and October, before and after our Annual General Meeting). We hold both meetings in Toronto now, whereas before we would travel to other parts of the country. We havent cut services to members at all. In fact, weve been able to increase them. Im also keen on cross-sectoral or organizational initiatives, such as the one we undertook several years ago with our counterparts in the worlds of orchestral music, dance and opera. We made presentations on tax cuts and tax breaks to Finance Minister Paul Martin and his bureaucratic team and these affected the workings of The Canada Councils task force on tax incentives. ZR Where do you see PACT going in the next five years? PB I dont know. I can see it moving in a variety of directions, depending on many factors. Revenues (not funding, but overall revenues) are going to be a factor. The majority comes from membership dues. If we lose a substantial part of our Canada Council funding, and if our membership drops or cant pay their dues, then well be forced to make ourselves into an even leaner organization. I have an image of PACT as an office within a cluster of other offices belonging to similar organizations, sharing one fax machine and a super-duper computer, with an Executive Director walking around with a cellular phone, always available and accessible. Under the state of deficit hysteria, which I think will continue for at least another five years, I cant see advocacy influencing policy at the mega-level. But we will continue to be effective in what Id call micro-advocacy: helping The Canada Council organize community fora of selected people to discuss new Council programmes, working with The Canada Councils Theatre Section. If the political climate continues to be the same, I cant see PACT focussing on huge campaigns to change the governments mind. Well need to emphasize labour relations and the overall atmosphere that exists between PACT theatres, and PACT and CAEA as organizations. Well hopefully improve in the area of publications. But unless there are drastic funding changes, there wont be major alterations in how we work. With membership-driven organizations youve got a mechanism to ask, Are we doing okay? Is there something else we should be doing? Or not doing? As long as you ensure that sort of communication, youre serving your membership well. Janet Amos Or not doing? As long as you ensure that sort of communication, youre serving your membership well. Janet Amos Interview by Suzanne Ranson Blyth, Ontario, February 16, 1997. Janet Amos is a director and actor, and former Artistic Director of Theatre New Brunswick and the Blyth Festival. Suzanne Ranson Has the current Blyth Festival mandate changed much from the original? Janet Amosh Festival. Suzanne Ranson Has the current Blyth Festival mandate changed much from the original? Janet Amos Its developed, but it hasnt really changed. Our original mandate when the Festival started in 1975 was To foster the Arts in Huron County, which is pretty general. In that inaugural season, the Festival produced Agatha Christies The Mousetrap and a play based on a novel by a local Canadian writer, Harry Boyle, that did very well. That success led to the decision to make a festival of Canadian plays. In 1975, that was adventurous. Blyth is a very small village in the middle of Huron County: its a farrming area with a population of around one thousand inhabitants. Our theatre has 481 seats! SR What were some of the steps in the growth and development of the Blyth Festival? JA From 1975-1979, James Roy was Artistic Director. I was Artistic Director from 1979-1984 and 1993-1997. From 1984-1990, Katherine Kazsas took over (shes now Associate Artistic Director at Canadian Stage) and from 1990-1993 Peter Smith was in control. Next season, Anne Chislett becomes Artistic Director. When Katherine was here, the theatre was extremely successful and very popular. She used the excitement to convince the Board of Directors to build a new addition to the theatre that included rehearsal space and a shop for building props and scenery. We have the best-equipped shop in Ontario, outside of places like the Stratford Festival, and people love to work here. We now have two big rehearsal spaces, a writers centre and an art gallery. We bought a building which houses administration and we built a link between the two buildings which is now the entrance to the theatre. Those changes and additions cost around $2 million dollars. The stage is very small, though. Just like the original space, its intimate and cosy. But even if it looks like there might only be room for two hundred seats, there are almost five hundred. We voted against having bigger seats replace the tiny, old-fashioned ones, all jammed in together, because we depend a lot on box office and we needed the numbers. SR What about funding from the government? JA Oh, yes. We used to get 29% of our operating budget from the various levels of government, and this year our budget will be close to a million dollars. This year our Ontario Arts Council grant was cut $30,000 to $70,000. Were very dependent on government funding. And our fund-raising as well. This year were depending on $195,000 from fund-raising. SR How do the various ancillary events and programmes work within the Festival? JA The Art Gallery is run by a group of artists on a volunteer basis and they mount three professional shows in the summer to coincide with our summer season. In the winter, they exhibit local artists, run workshops and coordinate special programmes for children. They also do art tours. We have a choir called The Festival Singers, wkshops and coordinate special programmes for children. They also do art tours. We have a choir called The Festival Singers, who^P" QQ]@_" 8\0``" ``_a @``HH are an amateur group led by a professional choir master. They perform year round. We produce a professional summer season. Then, in the winter we produce a variety of work. For example, well be bringing in a staged version of Timothy Findleys The Piano Mans Daughter, producing a murder mystery with local actors and a professional director as a fund-raiser, working with a young company of high school students (who work for six weeks during the summer with a professional director). The young company will mount a childrens show in the summer with a professional designer providing set and costumes. Well run a show for children for two weeks in the fall and bus in around six thousand children from all over the region to see the play. In February of this year, we hosted a high school drama festival of six shows from five different local high schools. They were preparing to compete in the Sears Drama Festival. SR What were the early years like? JA Let me start back at the beginning. In the first year, there was a budget of $10,000 and an audience of 3,000 people. The tickets were $2. each. Then the Festival gradually grew. The next year, the season had four plays in it instead of two. And they were all Canadian plays. James Roy ran the Festival for five weeks. By the time James left the Festival, the audience was up to 13,000 people for the four shows that we produced. By the time I left in 1984, the audience was at about 30,000 people and during Katherines tenure, we grew to 42,000 people. Then Peter took over and in his first season the audience figures dropped first to 39,000 and then by his third year to 24,000. SR What do you think were the reasons for this decline in attendance? JA I dont know. Its a cycle. People get accustomed to programming and they didnt like some of Peters choices. There was also the big financial crisis in those years. In the meantime, the workshop for new plays was expanded and touring continued. I initiated both programmes and Katherine continued to develop them. The Festival became known as a place for writers to workshop their plays, to write in a retreat setting. A lot of the plays from Blyth have been picked up by other theatres and produced elsewhere. Weve been a good source of plays for what you might call ordinary people. Were opening the 1997 Summer Season with Chisletts Quiet in the Land, which is a classic we premiered in 1981. When Peter came into the Festival, he didnt have quite enough experience to make the shows hed chosen work. He programmed a couple of really weird plays in his first season: he should have waited to do that. The publicity person left the company, so there was little marketing or publicity. At some point the continuous growth had to stop. But now, happily, the Festival is beginning to grow again. SR Was there a feeling of panic when all of this happened? JA Yes. In 1993 the theatre almost closed because the overall debt was $500,000. There wasnt even a bank loan to cover the debt. There were bills outstanding of $186,000 and no money to pay them. When I arrived, the bank wouldnt loan us any money. I had been at Theatre New Brunswick in Fredericton four years (1984-1988), running a big, regional theatre with a touring mandate. Id never lived in Eastern Canada and it was a wonderful experience. I had thought it might be like living in Blyth, but it was completely different. In 1988, I moved back to Toronto, where I hadnt been for almost a decade. I went back to school and earned a teaching degree, because I wanted to do something different. I got a Canada Council grant and went to learn French in Quebec. I worked as a freelance director and an actor to earn a living and I was actually in the middle of directing Molires The Learned Ladies at George Brown College in Toronto when the Festival called me. SR Were you hesitant to go back to Blyth? JA Oh, yes. I didnt really want to do it. I was terrified, of course. I had never dealt with a theatre in crisis before. Its been very hard and Im glad its over. When I arrived the operating debt was $229,000, most of which was made up by those outstanding bills I mentioned earlier. Today, we have a surplus of $82,000. We still have our capital debt, but its secured by a mortgage. That means that we get to pay it back gradually. The theatre is in much better shape. SR How did you approach the crisis? What steps did you take? JA I went to the banks to see if they would loan us any money. We needed cash flow. We ended up borrowing money from supporters of the Festival who lived in the village of Blyth and Huron County. We borrowed $140,000 for a period of three years from the people. Can you imagine them loaning us that money when we were in such a terrible condition? People were writing us cheques for $5,000, knowing that they might never see their money again. Senior citizens gave us their RRSPs. And they knew the situation: we didnt lie to them. Well, we paid back that money this summer. Everything got paid off. I can leave knowing that. SR Before you came to the Festival, you worked as an actor and a director. JA I started out acting. I really got my start with Paul Thompson at Theatre Passe Muraille. Then I began directing, because Pauls projects were very male-oriented. I wanted to do other things and Paul gave me opportunities to develop my own interests. Then James Roy asked me if I would be interested in applying for the Artistic Director position at the Festival. I had never had aspirations to be an Administrator, but it turns out that Im very good at it. Im also a good director, so the combination of talents and skills made me a successful Artistic Director. Now I want to go back to a freelance career. Id like to act again. SR Do you prefer small-town theatre to city theatre? JA Not necessarily. Im changing in my needs as an artist right now, and thats why I want to go back to the city and do things for myself. Im finding that I want to work on a lot of plays that wouldnt be right for the Festival. For example, Id like to do a new production of Sharon Pollocks Doc. Blyth audiences would probably hate that play: its dark and tragic and includes a lot of swearing. I would never think to programme a Judith Thompson play at the Festival, even though shes an absolutely great playwright. (I would like to do one of her plays and thats another reason for me to do my own thing elsewhere.) I wouldnt do a David Fennario play, though hes a fabulous playwright too. People here just wouldnt hear his plays because of the swearing. They would be stunned. If you do plays that are too silly, something light...well, I tried that last season and though we sold a lot of tickets, everybody hated it. SR How many original scripts do you read prior to choosing the season? JA That depends. I used to read a hundred or so every year, but I dont have as much time to do that now. I have to do so much administrative work. I spent this last month finalizing the season, the budget, setting up the tour, doing the poster and the brochure. Now Im going to cast the plays and hire the last director and designer. Somewhere around March or April, we start reading scripts and considering them for workshops, as well as looking for projects that might be of interest next year. After the summer season is over, I would normally read scripts, between mid-October and January, and try to choose the next season. SR What do you think is the state of Canadian theatre? JA That depends on where you are. Were under terrific strain brought about by funding cuts from the government. You wont see the complete impact of those cuts for another two years. Ill bet that within five years, one third of our theatres will be gone. Things are bad. On the other hand, There is tremendous creative energy coming from people in their twenties. Theres a lot of exciting stuff happening. I want to work to find a way to give opportunities to people of that generation. Most of them can work for very little money because they dont yet have family obligations. Thats where the future lies. If we can just hang on until Mr. Harris is out of power. SR Well, Paul Thompson has been quoted as saying, In order to be successful, you have to get a group of friends together, get out there.... JA And do it! Thats how a lot of theatres started. None of those people could get work in any other:p`:P:0P::PR) ':P:``R) :PPR) op':'''p'<<==p:`R) :0:R) 77Y:0ZoZp theatre. In the early 70s, there were a bunch of government grants available from the federal Liberals. Theatres like Passe Muraille and Factory look like theyve been here forever, but they havent. And if a theatre dies, then you have to make a new one. Like Toronto Workshop Productions: it died and now Buddies in Bad Times is in that space, and look at the energy there! Its not the same type of energy; in fact, its totally different. But its new energy responding to the needs of a community. Theres much more emphasis on finding your audience today. Thats not a bad thing for theatre. Whats theatre without an audience? Burkett Interview by Emma Humphrey December, 1996, interview conducted by e-mail. Ronnie Burkett is an award-winning pRonnie Burkett Interview by Emma Humphrey December, 1996, interview conducted by e-mail. Ronnie Burkett is an award-winning pup O`"     O "  @O"  peteer, garnering two Dora Mavor Moore Awards for Tinkas New Dress. He lives and creates his work in Calgary, Alberta. Selected Plays Old Friends, 1996 Tinkas New Dress, 1994 The Daisy Theatre, 1992 Awful Manors, 1991 The Punch Club, 1989 Virtue Falls, 1988 Fools Edge, 1986 Emma Humphrey You originally created Theatre of Marionettes to bring puppet theatre to adult audiences Yet your most recent play, Old Friends, is a work of theatre for young audiences. Ronnie Burkett Its quite true that Theat. Yet your most recent play, Old Friends, is a work of theatre for young audiences. Ronnie Burkett Its quite true that TheatreDH?S|BT?_|@`?k|>l?w|<x?|:?|8?|6?|4?|2?|0?|.?|, of Marionettes was created to place puppetry back on the legitimate stage, for adult audiences. Old Friends is the result of my past association with Manitoba Theatre for Young People. I collaborated on Seesaw by Dennis Foon, with Cathy Nosaty. Both of us are friends of MTYP Artistic Director Leslee Silverman, so when she approached us with the idea of creating a show that would be non-verbal and could play internationally we agreed. In terms of content for a childrens show, it struck me that kids and seniors are perhaps the most invisible and marginalized groups in society. In creating a show that reflected one of these groups to the other, I hoped that I might get these generations to look at each other more realistically. And oddly, during the process of creating Old Friends we rarely thought of it as kids theatre. My work usually relies quite heavily on dialogue and my own ability to create numerous voices. My personal goal in Old Friends was to create emotion and tell a story through the movement of the marionettes, thus working on a stricter manipulation technique. Not many kids see marionettes, or in fact, puppetry on stage that isnt post-Muppet flappy foam rubber stuff. I wanted, with Old Friends, to show a younger audience that it was posstage that isnt post-Muppet flappy foam rubber stuff. I wanted, with Old Friends, to show a younger audience that it was possibJ" JI" 1Y22YZI" I" le to create a whole other kind of theatrical puppet. EH Tinkas New Dress was the first Theatre of Marionettes production that you directed. Will you also direct Old Friends and Street of Blood, your next major play? RB Yes. While Ive had some good directors in the past (and also some not so good ones...), by the time rehearsals start, all the choices have been made. I write the script. I design the characters and the set. I hire the composer and the lighting designer and work with them. It began to seem odd to hire a director to come in and stage for me what has been in my mind for several years. This is not to say that I dont enlist the eyes and ears of several valued colleagues, who come into rehearsal and watch, listen and comment. Thats a vital part of the rehearsal process for me. For example, on Tinkas New Dress, choreographer Denise Clarke worked with me for a week, finding movement vocabulary for me and for the marionettes. That was of immense and significant value. EH In the past, the media have labelled you the bad boy of puppetry. RB That was a media sting or press handle that I created with the publicist at Alberta Theatre Projects for my first show, Fools Edge. It made my debut with Theatre of Marionettes seem a bit dangerous, a bit sexier or perhaps alternative. Im tired of the bad boy image now: Im neither bad nor a boy. Im nearly forty now and it became boring when I was in my mid-thirties. Bad boy implies irreverence and cheekiness, while now I consider myself political and subversive. EH Its been said that you discovered puppetry at seven years of age, while randomly flipping through The World Book Encyclopedia. Has fate played a hand in your life? RB I have very strong feelings on that, which I rarely discuss for fear of making it less. But yes, I do feel somewhat guided towards the work I do, and certainly sustained throughout my exploration and evolution. I dont know about being chosen, and puppetry would seem an odd thing to be chosen for...but I certainly know that I have been blessed with the incredible gift of a life-long passion. There has not been one day since the seven year old opened that book when Ive not thought about puppetry, or when it hasnt totally consumed and excited me. And it doesnt seem to be waning. Right now, I feel like I am finally beginning my true work, and its more exciting than ever. EH Why did you decide to make Calgary your home-base? RB I came to Calgary in 1980, intending to stay for one year and have been here ever since. Six or seven years ago I intended to move to Toronto, but I met my partner Larry and because of the circumstances of our life together, Calgary became a better choice. Im on tour up to ten months of any given year, so it really doesnt matter where I base the Theatre of Marionettes. I also originally conceived Theatre of Marionettes as a national company. I can also afford to live in Calgary and operate a studio here. I just purchased an old Buddhist monastery, gutted it and turned it into a home and studio. I couldnt afford such a place in, say, Toronto or Vancouver. Calgary is not at the centre of trends, and I love that. I could never live and work in Toronto, for example. There is so much going on and so many trends in the art world that many people get caught up discussing and reviewing and copying art rather than just doing art. Denise Clarke and I agree on this: Calgary permits the artist freedom to create, and offers a healthy, booming economy to sustain that art, coupled with an affordable lifestyle. Being an artist in Calgary doesnt necessarily mean living a life of poverty. EH Youve identified Bil Baird, Martin Stevens and Noreen Young as mentors. Who would you say is your current mentor? RB Noreen Young is still very much alive and she has, over the years, become a great and close friend. I have more collaborators than mentors right now, a few peers whom I hold in very high regard. For example, Cathy Nosaty and I have a good working relationship and I plan to work with her for a long time. Ive recently been thinking about the notion of mentors. After years of what I consider exploration, I feel as if Ive just started my real work. I find that Im more interested in simply hunkering down and doing it. I possess a great vocabulary of building skills now, so learning how to isnt as important as it once was. And I finally trust myself as an actor and a writer, so I dont seek out people as much as I once did. Now I just want as much quiet time as possible to daydream and write and design new work. My mentors were so influential that they exist in my mind each and every day. I am acutely aware of their presence in my work and much of what they taught me is just now starting to make sense. EH Was there a turning point for you somewhere in the evollution of your work? RB Many evolutionary points happened along the way and different people played roles at various times. Without a doubt, though, my improvised shows, The Daisy Theatre and Tinkas New Dress changed everything for me. The audience listened and responded to me talking about my truths. These were not clever little ditties or bawdy dialogue for the sake of being cheeky, but issues and characters that mattered to me. And somehow, the audiences for these two works helped me to realize the breadth of the characters. I am still quite funny and at times outrageous and even filthy, but its not simply because Im trying get an audience reaction. Its difficult to risk stating your own viewpoint, because theatre is artificial and staged and often the truth and the connection with the audience can get lost. Right now, Im feeling very connected to my audiences and that ongoing dialogue between audience and artist is what has changed my work and my life. EH Have you ever thought of doing a retrospective of your older pieces? RB Ive often considered mounting a season or two in Toronto, Winnipeg or Calgary and running all the old shows in rep. Speaking realistically, I dont think that will ever happen. My style has evolved and the puppets which were initially grotesque have become considerably more naturalistic. All of the old sets have been thrown out or recycled. The enormous Awful Manors set was junked last year in order to build touring crates for the carousel from Tinkas New Dress. The earlier work was more about virtuosity: it was equally about me and the puppets. More and more I am less and less interested in putting the focus on myself, choosing instead to place it solely on the characters and the story. Im no longer interested either intellectually or emotionally in the older shows. Im glad I did them and they reflect who and where I was at the time of their presentation, but I have other things to say now. EH You often state that you dislike working in television, and yet you continue to do so. RB Television has nothing to do with content or audience: its filler between commercials. I do it strictly for the cash. Television has funded Theatre of Marionettes for a number of years. Its been easier and more enjoyable to negotiate with smarmy, sleazy television producers than to kiss the collective butt at The Canada Council. I made a deal with myself that if Theatre of Marionettes ever made more money than my television work, I would stop doing the television work. With Tinkas New Dress that happened. But I also just purchased and renovated the new studio, and building my shows is becoming more and more costly, so I will continue to work in television now and then, to feed the mortgage and build the new work. EH Considering the social implications of your work, do you believe that human nature must change before society can, or vice versa? RB We as a society are so obsessed with the new information that we fail to acknowledge that which we already know. Society is changing so quickly that many people are constantly scrambling to keep up. And in the scramble to keep up, many give up their responsibility towards the society as a whole. Human nature has always been the same fundamentally, with all the same loves, jealousies, passions, wars and hatreds. Thats why when classical theatre is done well it still excites and ignites and speaks to a modern audience. What interests me as a citizen and a guy who stands on stage in front of an audience is pushing my neighbours (and myself) to remember that it is the collective we who dictate circumstances. That buying the propaganda and the official diet of information is the easy and historically horrific way of dealing with life in society. If we remember that humans can shape the society in which we live, then maybe the fundamental way in which we live can change. Helen Carmichael Porter Interview by Brad Woods Toronto, September 19, 1996. Helen Carmichael Porter is a storyteller, playwright and educator. Selected PlaLove You So Much It Hurtsys I Love You So Much It Hurts, 1994 My Grandmothers Month, 1992 My Father Taught Me To Swim, II, 1991 My Father Taught Me To Swim, I, 1990 Helen Carmichael Porter In 1990, when I started storytelling in the theatre,,,ne of the questions on the appl I applied for government funding for my first storytelling play, My Father Taught Me To Swim. One of the questions on the applicAEAG?Q?S=]=_;i;k9u9w77553311//--+Ɂ+ˁ)Ձ)ation was How is this a theatre form? My answer was, in part, that storytelling is standing up in the light and telling a story. The challenge was then explaining how this is theatre without anyone acting, without costume, without a set. Since then, the Toronto Arts Council and the Metro Arts Council have been extremely generous in their support of my work, but the Canada Council has not been, in that they refused to acknowledge that what I do is theatre. They always sent me to programmes for Folk Art. Theatre is a place of art where many creative sources come together. Lighting, for example, tells a story on its own. Costume tells a tale on its own. And the actors conversing with one another tell a story with the audience. There is music adding to and supporting the stories already being told. Storytelling is different. Its the art of Homer, where an actor stands and gives a story. Its the art of Beowulf, and the oral traditions from which Beowulf came. Brad Woods There isnt any need for props or cooostumes to do that. HP Right. The idea is that the story is the art. All the images in a story, and all the pictures that come alive in the imagination form the art. Ive been challenged so many times about Is storytelling theatre? that I began to bargain and the storytelling began to lose. I received incredible levels of sponsorship for I Love You So Much It Hurts, and we toured it throughout Ontario with costumes, lighting, original music (as well as music by Elvis Presley, Roy Orbison and Patsy Cline). It included acting as well as storytelling monologues. We achieved success with that show in terms of storytelling theatre, but decided not to continue. I felt that I was compromising the art of storytelling more and more in order to succeed with storytelling theatre as theatre. BW Do you prefer the term storytelling to playwriting? HP Not necessarily. Ive recently been invited to British Columbia to write a play for a theatre company. Ill be re-writing two myths as plays. There will be a set design, a costume design. Its an interesting prospect. In addition to actually writing the play, Ill also perform as a storytelling narrator. Im writing the narrator as an androgynous, Teiresias figure who will provide the frame for the story, who will see both the past and the future. Ive discovered after all my work as a storyteller that I love writing, both plays and stories. BW How did you begin storytelling? HP It was in my background. I started out as an English teacher for five years in the 1970s. I loved teaching, but I also felt confined by it. The mediocrity of the system got to me increasingly and I wanted more and more to work with and in the world of literature. So I left teaching. My mother was from the Ottawa Valley, a place filled with storytelling. And my father was from Peterborough County, a place filled with...land. The stories are where the land is: stories come out of a relationship with the earth. I had many relatives who told tales, and I had grown up in a conservative part of downtown Toronto, without many stories. In affluent Toronto, you didnt tell stories (that was gossip), but in the country there was more of a passing on of tales. My mother told me a lot of stories and my father (a minister) read us a lot of stories too. So I just decided to do this. In the early 80s I saw a wonderful group of storytellers from the United States perform who were called The Wallflowers. They were a troupe of women, all feminist Communists, telling stories about women. I think they might also have been lesbians. I didnt think much about their political motivations, I was simply inspired by their vision. I just started from there, putting a show together. The Arts Committee at my downtown church agreed to support me and I worked my butt off for my first solo concert. I spent three months learning the stories I wanted to tell in a way that just about killed me. I would never do that now, learning them perfectly. It was quite stilted at first. BW What did you choose for that first show? HP I had been teaching English literature for over seven years, as well as doing graduate work (Master of Arts) in the English novel, so I had a sense of story and theme which guided me. When I put together this show Id just been through the break-up of a relationship. The show was called Metamorphosis in Love, because thats how I felt. The thematic story linking the parts of the show was the tale of Beauty and the Beast. I also included a story by Virginia Woolf called Lapin and Lapinova, James Joyces Araby and Bernard Malamuds The Magic Barrel. I was accompanied by a flautist. At that time I only did stories I loved and that Id spent the time to study. I lived on my teachers superannuation. I spent it all, which was very foolish, but I was kind of crazy. I was ready to take risks. In my first year of storytelling I had maybe four jobs. And then it just grew and grew. A lot of my drive came from trying to survive and from the need to prove that I could be successful as a storyteller. My father was very upset that I had left teaching, and that Id lost my OHIP and other benefits. My publicist for the first eight years, John Karastamattis (who now works for the Mirvish organization) was part of the reason for my success. I became a regular on Peter Gzowskis Morningside and I performed in venues from Roy Thompson Hall to the OKeefe Centre (now the Hummingbird Centre for the Performing Arts). I didnt resign from a good career to tell stories. Actually, I resigned to write. At first, I found it lonely and hard-going, but storytelling was my route to break into writing. And now, fifteen years later, here I am. BW Can you talk a little more about theatre and storytelling, the similarities and the differences? HP Ive learned respect for what theatre means: its a great place of art. Its akin to the Church, to worship. The actor is only one small part of the juggling among all the artists involved in making theatre. When I started, at the Palmerston Library Theatre and at the St. Lawrence Centre, I just stood and talked and there was also original music, but I was, basically, a woman telling tales on a stage. Lights would come up and I would move and talk. But later, I had to act more and more with others to deal with that Canada Council challenge (Its not theatre.). I was invited to be part of the Tarragon Theatres Playwrights Unit in 1993 and that was a fabulous experience. Urjo Kareda and Andy McKim helped me discover that everyone in the theatre is a storyteller! In my first effort at a play, Urjo commented, Nothing is happening. Youre just telling a story. Thats not drama. And I remember working and arguing and talking about the art of storytelling and Andy said, You talk about it as if its this precious thing that only a few people have. We are all storytellers! Our role is to tell the story through conflict. Thats the role of artists in the theatre: to bring the story to the King, with blood on our collar. There has to be blood on your collar, as when the old Greek messenger arrives breathless, injured. Urjo kept asking me, Wheres the conflict? And Id try to answer, Its in the story.... Hed counter that the conflict had to be revealed in the first eight minutes of a play in order to keep the audience in the theatre. In eight minutes you had to give people a reason to spend their bucks and their time. There had to be some risk or something with a depth of serious intent, even in a comedy, in that first eight minutes. That for me was learning about storytelling from a totally differenus intent, even in a comedy, in that first eight minutes. That for me was learning about storytelling from a totally different pg about storytelling from a totally different pminutes. That for me was learning about storytelling from a totally different perspective. BW Are there any dominant themes in your work? HP Any storyteller who is any good tells stories about him/herself. So first of all, youve got to know who you are and where you are in your life. Storytelling is also about listening, both to yourself and to others. In order to tell a story, youve got to know your own personal story. Youve got to recognize where you are whether youre telling The Three Little Pigs or Billy Goat Gruff or one of the great Irish epics or one of the Musicians of Bremen or a Greek myth. And youve got to read a lot to know these things. When you listen to a lot of stories then you find, maybe, what really quivers inside you, what makes you respond, what pierces you. A story has to pierce me for me to want to tell it, meaning that anything Im writing or going to work with must break through and help me feel something I didnt feel before. Or, its been a way of coming to terms with a feeling that I couldnt express any other way. My vision and my themes come from listening to people. My new show is a gossip show, because Ive noted that gossip is more rampant in schools and in the media today. Its the way kids in schools talk to each other. Ive done workshops with kids and at every school I hear the same things, Im not going to stop gossiping. Its not a knife. Its not a fist. Its cool, man and everybody does it. So, Ive created a character called Maggie Pie, who is fourteen and shes a talker, a storyteller, but her stories are sometimes inappropriate because they betray other people. My agents, Prologue to the Performing Arts, will be selling this show to junior high schools, my favourite age group. BW What in particular do you like about that age group? HP Theyre vulnerable, angry, sassy and ripe for hearing things. By eleven and twelve, theres this kind of coolness that masks their vulnerability. BW Lets get back to themes and storat dominate your work. HP Yes. Lately, Ive been using a lot of the stories and themes that appear in Shakespeares playies that dominate your work. HP Yes. Lately, Ive been using a lot of the stories and themes that appear in Shakespeares plays AEAG?Q?S=]=_;i;k9u9w77553311//--+Ɂ+ˁ)Ձ)to introduce Shakespeare to students. Like Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. In Macbeth I make Ross the Servant Storyteller. My husband, an English teacher, warned me: Dont make the storyteller a major character, like Macbeth. Hes going to get into such passions and its difficult to be a primary character and also shift to other characters simultaneously. So I play servants using lines and metaphors from the plays to tell the story. I also tell Arthurian legends and Greek myths a lot in my school storytelling tours. I also do a lot of biblical stories, re-telling them for modern times. I teach at the Toronto School of Theology, as well as at the Theology Departments at Queens University and University of Western Ontario. I teach storytelling for preachers. I always choose an epic story to work on with them. One year, it was Moses for a whole week. This year, its the story of Jacob. I love that work, because Im helping them to be free. They have to learn how to use their voices and see the voice as an instrument without sounding or becoming phony. We work to get rid of the religious sound to the voice, and to give them the freedom to get into the passion of the story. BW Sounds like you still love teaching. HP I do love it. Im teaching Writers Craft at night school too, at the Grade 13 level. I always want to be able to teach. I love helping students with their writing so they will feel confident about their voice. Its something I can offer as an artist, which is often different than what a teacher who is not an artist can offer them. I can give professional feedback on their writing so they leave that class with some power in their words. I can help my students feel something that I didnt feel when I was in Grade 13. BW Is there a camaraderie among storytellers? HP When I started in storytelling in Toronto, The School of Storytelling was in operation. That was comprised of tellers like Dan Yashinsky, Bob Barton, Joan Bodger, Lynda Howes, Celia Lottridge and Alice Kain. These people had founded the school and were offering classes based in the oral tradition. Storytelling as part of theatre or using literary material was not part of their work. So there was no support for my vision. None. Some of them came to my shows, but they left saying nothing. I never got feedback from them. Once, when a group of us were telling stories at the Legislature in New Brunswick, I asked one of the most critical members of that group, Why didnt you speak to me? Did you not like my stories? Is there something wrong with the way Im doing it? And she just said, You dont tell. And you dont tell fairy tales. You do stories like Alice Munroes. I dont believe thats real storytelling. That was hurtful. After all, I have been working as a school storyteller for sixteen years. I tell fairy tales and stories from all over the world and from different cultures. Ive really earned my money doing that. On the other hand, my public name was made on the literary material, the higher risk stuff. Id go to Friday night storytelling evenings and hang around with the storytellers and find them dour. A bit like Church people: tell the right story, in the right way, with the right... you know what I mean. Now, not all the stories were nice, but there was something missing from the+4`>p?`h`R) ">p?h@R) p'S?pp9??? J???0?0??@?@gR) ?@g?ff?<S<9m. There was a darkness missing that I found in the theatre. Maybe it was a level of reality that was missing. I certainly became friends with some of the storytellers later on. And now, everything has changed. They have changed. This is the first year you will ever have seen my name advertised in their brochure. There are so many people out there now wanting to tell stories and one cannot keep the same group in power, holding all the control. It simply bottomed out and when they came back together it was with a lot of different people. So the courses at The Storytellers School reflect many different kinds of energy. For instance, Neil Muscott is teaching improv storytelling for them. There is also a theatre voice teacher included, Michael Connelly. Theres a nice change and its been a long time coming. BW How do you actually choose a story? HP I choose the stories that really excite me, that really touch me, from any tradition or from my own imagination. I look for traditional stories that have interesting rhythms and patterns. BW Some storytellers change the stories, telling them from different perspectives. .. HP Yes. Ive done that. Telling the pigs from the wolfs position. I was brought up in the United Church, with the teaching that the Gospel is t--PɁ+ˁ)Ձ)ׁ''%%##!!)+57ACMOY[egqs }     ŁǀрӀ݀߀he only story, and the general Christian feeling that our story is the story. Ive found that a bit with storytellers. Theres a self-righteousness about them and a religious commitment to the traditional story that disturbs me. Some talk as if what they are doing is saving the world. Youd never hear someone like, say, Karen Kain saying that. Or an actor. Or a writer. No writer would ever say, I hope my work is saving people. Theres a lot of censorship in the storytelling community. And a distinct moral vision. And rigidity. I feel that artists are people who paint their picture or tell their tale, usually with a personal motivation: to cleanse something out of their system. I doubt the integrity of an artist who says theyre just doing art for other people. Art is about truth. If people are helped and changed, thats great too. Some people want to tell cute and sentimental stories, like How Uncle Ernies Suspenders Fell Down at his Wedding. A great family story has to have real thought behind it. Youuve got to go back and find and insert details that reflect the shadows. It can be a funny story, but even to find the humour you have to be honest. Ive been very honest, and maybe thats a fault. But this is what Ive learned and Im telling it to you truthfully. David S. Craig Interview by Patti Kelly Toronto, September 30, 1996. David S. Craig is an award-winning playwright and founding member of Theatre Direct Canada, one of the largest touring companies for young audiences in North America. Selected Plays Health Class, 1995 One Heart at a Time (with Robert Morgan), 1995 The Book of Miracles (with Robert Morgan), 1993 Playing in the Park, 1991 Napalm the Magnificent, 1990 Fires in the Night, 1988 S.O.S., 1988 Head a Tete (with Robert Morgan), 1987 Cue For Treason, 1986 The Railroad Story, 1986 Morgans Journey (number 2) (with Robert Morgan), 1985 Booster McCrane, P.M., 1983 All For Beaver Hats, 1981 The Great Canadian Energy Show, 1979 Patti Kelly What brought you to theatre? David S. Craig83 All For Beaver Hats, 1981 The Great Canadian Energy Show, 1979 Patti Kelly What brought you to theatre? David S. Craig WEtQQr]]piinuul7?|6?|4?|2?|0?|.?|,hen I was in high school the idea of being in plays attracted me, but I was embarrassed to audition. I thought maybe I could be an extra and I was asked if I could do a cartwheel. To make a long story short, I was given a major non-speaking role. A lot `E" Gl`0EpE" |!!`E" `Ep" E`iinuul7?|6?|4?|2?|0?|.?|,of actors will tell you that once you have a successful experience on stage, you want to do it again. When I was twenty-four years old I was the Artistic Director of Theatre Direct. I stopped auditioning for other companies and when we needed plays, I started writing them! Thats how I came to playwriting. PK How do you define Canadian Theatre? DC Canadian Theatre is created by anyone who calls themselves a Canadian. Canadian Theatre is changing as the world is changing. For example, when I started in theatre in 1976, the companies I admired most were the ones that produced Canadian plays: the NDWT Company, Theatre Passe Muraille, Tarragon Theatre, Toronto Workshop Productions. The audience was hungry to see Canadian plays. When I founded Theatre Direct Canada, Canada was an important aspect of everything we did. I dont know exactly how we reflected the country; I guess it was simply that we were Canadian ourselves. Today things have altered and Canadians arent as interested in seeing their own stories. Canadians have a way of looking at the world and wanting to see whats out there. Last year, we made more money from performing our plays in the United States than in Ontario. Thats a sad comment. PK In an interview in NOW Magazine in 1986, you are quoted as saying, I will always, always write for kids. Could you elaborate? DC I was lucky to work with senior theatre artists in England, like Paddy Masfield who ran TIE (Theatre in Education) in Stoke-on-Trent. He influenced me deeply and helped me realize that theatre for young audiences could be a strong creative outlet. Adults are often quite conservative in comparison to kids. For example, you can shift styles within a piece and kids will just accept it without being judgmental. PK You run workshops for students and teachers. What objective do you have in mind for this programme? DC The impact and objectives vary depending on what Im excited about at the time. I do a lot of writing workshops. There are some wonderful exercises through creative imagination that I introduce to kids to help them come up with scenarios. We all have stories to tell, and if we tell them truthfully, from our own experience, they will have the kind of detail that will fascinate any audience. I say to kids, You are an expert on your life. No one else knows what it means to be in your school, to do your job. So why shouldnt you be the one to write the story at the centre of that experience? PK You also are a part of Roseneath Productions. What is that? DC Its actually become Roseneath Theatre. Founded by Robert Morgan and me, its meant to produce our work. After about five years, it became clear that we needed to formalize the arrangement and we became an incorporated, registered, not-for-profit charity, with a Board of Directors. As for the choice of the name, we thought of all types of names for a theatre for young audiences, but all of them sounded patronizing. So we named the theatre after the street we lived on. As a name, it has no significance. We were quite deliberate about that: it is the play that is important. We differentiate ourselves from being strictly a theatre for young audiences. We call ourselves a family theatre. We do work you can take your kids to see, and adults as well as young people can appreciate the plays. There is always a strong adult element in our plays. PK You collaborate a lot with Robert Morgan. DC Weve worked together since 1979. Were simpatico! Im very organized and see the comedy in things. Robert has the dynamism and keeps the focus intact. Ive been lucky in most of my collaborations. Not just with Robert, but also with Jerome Ackhurst (for five years), Richard Greenblatt (as a director) and James Roy (as a producer of CBC Radio Drama). PK Your plays show a variety of styles and voices. DC Yes, one voice writes plays like Fires in the Night while another wants to express Napalm the Magnificent. Theres also a Noel Coward voice who likes elegant, witty dialogue and characters who treat each other reasonably and politely. And a part of me that wants to blow things up and have murder and mayhem. PK Where did Napalm come from? DC I discovered Napalm in a workshop I did with Philippe Gaulier. I had this character kicking around in my head for seven years before I wrote a word for him to say. Then I wrote the first draft in two weeks. There is a voice inside me that delights in being horrible. Maybe it comes from spending fifteen years doing childrens theatre. (Childrens theatre has made me a very good living. I am a family man as well as a theatre professional, so having a relatively steady income has been important. Ive been grateful to have this work.) PK Can you distinguish between clown and bouffon? DC I began in clown: my first play in Canada was called The Clown that Laughed and Laughed and Laughed. If you were to give clown a subtext it would be the relationship that the clown has to the audience, which is I love you. On the other hand, bouffon is like the contra-mask to clown. By this I mean that the smiling mask face can be made into a sad face depending on how you play it. Napalm is a bouffon. The bouffon hates the audience. If the bouffon actually came out and said to the audience, I hate you, this would be very dull. He doesnt do that. He comes out and says, I love you, but he doesnt mean it. This is hard and tricky for younger actors: you say one thing, but mean the opposite. The clown has affection for the audience; he is in league with the audience. The clown can look at the audience as friends and say, Look at the situation Im in.... The bouffon will look at the audience and say, Look at you! Look at the fucking situation youre in! and then laugh. And the audience will laugh along, because the bouffon is right. PK Who is Napalm? DC Napalm is flexible.+4`@A82R) "@A71R) 4QSV9QA7st'S9VS9t'S'9A91R) A7A81PR) A81@A7 A9P10R) QQsA9P Hes a three foot tall dwarf who has feet but no legs. Hes got a mysterious past: he claims to be the older brother of Jesus Christ. I dont know his background. I dont know who his parents were. None of that seems important. In some plays, background of a character would be important, but not with Napalm. What is important is what Napalm thinks about whats going on right now. What is Napalm? He just is. He grew out of the grass. He popped out of a manhole cover. He floated up from a sewer. He is a huge, mythical being. But then again, tomorrow he might tell you another story. He might tell you something new. PK Napalm often stops the show and apologizes to the audience, asking Did I go too far? Is it possible to go too far? DC Yes. Its the easiest thing to do and its very dull when it happens. Whats hard is to be confrontational but not go too far. And the irony has to work. When I was performing in the United States, I did the passage that goes, Youre good people. Youre fine people. Youre ppeople with a sense of justice. People who think things through. I meant the opposite, but the Americans didnt get it. They all went, Yup. Thats right. I am a good person. Yup, I do think things through. Why is he saying it in a funny way? Its kind of irritating. The irony, the main gun, can misfire from night to night, from audience to audience, from place to place. PK In one scene, Napalm turns into a snarling dog. He clubs an imaginary form with his blocks, fucks like a beast to climax, then kicks and spits on the dead form. Is he revealing pain or revelling in it? DC Hes not revelling in it. That moment is utterly chilling. Utterly appalling. Napalm is revealing the pain of the world in porno movies, where women are fucked, pummelled by some beefy guy. The women have to pretend to enjoy this treatment and this is then paraded as entertainment. Napalm wants the audience to be appalled at the ugliness of violence against women. PK In the videotape of the performance that I saw, young people in the audience laughed at this scene. Did this affect your performance? DC Yes. Sometimes after the rape scene there has been inappropriate laughter. I realized that this reaction has come from the audience responding out of tension. If that has happened, then I have focussed the discussion after the show on that moment. Some girls in the audience have been quite upset. PK Napalm is physically and mentally demanding. How do you prepare to do a show? DC I do half an hour of yoga and stretches. The costume allows me a lot of freedom. I know what I can and cannot do easily, so the play is paced from moments of physical activity to moments of rest. Im a professional actor, so why shouldnt I take the same kind of risks and make the same kind of demands on my body that other people do? PK Ive read that you re-write 25% of the script for Napalm each time you perform. DC The revisions dont come from any change of vision. They come from Napalm talking about what is now. What is in your brain pan right now? And what is in that brain pan changes radically every two months. In Toronto, now, there is deep concern over budget cuts by the provincial and federal governments and a great feeling of unease about our future, about the future of Canadian society. I want to take advantage of the fact that theatre can be re-written. Its not a movie. It doesnt have to be re-shot. I can re-write the play to be as up-to-date as possible. PK When you prepared Napalm for radio did you make many changes? DC We created a different surround. Napalm is supposed to be a guest on a radio talk show, but instead he locks himself in the studio and takes control. Thats the kind of situation where Napalm thrives: when he is in a situation where somebody is trying to repress him. So we ended up with Radio Napalm: Notes From a Dead Room. Occasionally we hear the strangled voice of the commentator trying to take back control. Napalm is the voice of the outsider, the voice of the extreme. Director Richard Greenblatt said, You know youre getting older when you go grey in your politics. Napalm has absolutely no grey. Thats what makes him so interesting theatrically. Hes an extreme. Martha Ross Interview by Krista Charbonneau Toronto, November 22, 1996. Playwright Martha Ross is Co-Artistic Director of Theatre Columbus. Selected Plays The Barber of Seville, 1996 The Attic, The Pearls and Three Fine Girls, 1995 The Knee Plays, 1992 Wildlife, 1991 Dr. Dapertutto, 1989 The Anger in Ernest and Ernestine (with Robert Morgan and Leah Cherniak), 1988 The Porch People, 1988 Fertility, 1987 Paranoia, 1987 Melancholia, 1986 Infidelity, 1985 Krista Charbonneau You studied ance at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. Martha Ross I dont know which came first, my boredom with dance or mydance at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. Martha Ross I dont know which came first, my boredom with dance or my lEEtQQr]]piinuuljhfdb`^ack of discipline. I never took it seriously, though I loved creating and performing. As Jacques Lecoq would say, I was a tourist. I just wasnt committed to dance. Around that time I came across an audition notice for a play and got a role. It was an obscure musical written by two ex-priests called The Idiots Karamazov. I played a pair of legs. KC How did you end up in Toronto? MR I graduated from Simon Fraser University and I was ready to give up theatre. After working at a fish plant, I went on UIC and followed a boyfriend east. Hed moved to New York and I wasnt convinced that the relationship was over, so I thought Well, Ill go live in Toronto and at least I wont be 3,000 miles away from him. I thought Id take a few theatre classes, stay with friends. My interest in theatre would have ended shortly after that if I hadnt accidentally fallen into one of Dean Gilmours clown classes, which was a true inspiration. He suggested that I consider going to France to study with Lecoq. I had been to Paris once before on a crazy whirlwind tour and I knew I loved the city. I went back to work at the fish plant, made some money and as soon as I was in the school, I knew I was home. It was so completely opposite to what I had been studying at university. The physical nature of the work and the discovery of comedy was so different from realistic theatre and the Stanislavski technique. KC What was the training at Ecole Jacques Lecoq like? MR The school had an international student population and I found it truly inspiring to meet people from Argentina, Italy, Norway, Israel. Paris was an education in itself, and every day we all had to figure out how to survive. This went along with Lecoqs pedagogy. His premise is to reduce the performer to a neutral mask, so you can start fresh, without assumptions. Each week Lecoq would have us do what he called autocours. Groups of five or six students would be assigned a theme, and from that theme youd create a five minute piece. The basis of all of our creation was to begin with zero assumptions. KC Zero assumptions about yourself or about the ideas? MR About the themes. For example, one of our assignments was Neutral Man discovers a giant city. As a group, we had to discover and discuss what exactly was meant by a "!Pp!P" ;" ":!P":" ":" " :!P"@:!P" :!Ph!P"@:" 1Y!P":`" "$@":@" " :0" giant city. And how we could show that. Well, at first I was skeptical, to say the least. But what we eventually came up with never ceased to amaze me. With any process of creation you have to start with a blank piece of paper or a bare stage and then you have to fill it. KC How have you incorporated the autocours into your process at Theatre Columbus? MR Our collective work comes out of that system. Collective work is a long process. One of our most successful pieces, The Anger in Ernest and Ernestine was a collective. Robert Morgan and I acted and Leah directed. And The Attic, The Pearls and Three Fine Girls was another successful collective. At some point in forming the script, we just handed out assignments: you take the first scene, Ill take the fourth scene. Each of the artists involved had a very different style of writing. KC What was the most rewarding part of the Lecoq training for you? MR The clown work. Clown, like neutral mask work, slows everything down, so its a vehicle to find choices. The clown is always in a state of thinking, which allows the audience to see the mental processes. Nothing is hidden. In studying clown, I found, for the first time, that I understood naturalism and how to get there. In the clowns world, he drops a plate and it breaks. The person who owns the plate is going to come back into the room at any second and there you are with a problem to solve. And you have to solve it for the audience, in order to make people laugh. And by trying to solve this small problem, you create theatre. You fill the space. You always have to have your ears attuned to the audience, because theyll let you know when the work isnt truthful, when it isnt working. Sometimes, if you keep insisting, youll find that the audience will eventually laugh. If it doesnt work the first time, it will work the fifth time. Maybe. KC What is it about audience reaction and feedback that appeals to you? Does it affirm your performance? MR It has a lot to do with anarchy. Laughter comes from the anarchic, rebellious spirit. I like that kind of energy. I was thinking about Theatre Columbus plays and I realized that many of them have an Outsider character, who enters the world of the play and affects it. The Porch People and Dr. Dapertutto, for example, and even Paranoia and Ratbag have Outsider characters who possess the rebellious spirit. KC Was there a part of the Lecoq training that you found difficult? MR I had a hard time with commedia dellarte. I wasnt very good at it. And I found the stock characters for women limited. I felt much closer to Arlecchino than Smeraldina. But maybe I could do it now. KC Why do you choose to work with the same group of actors? MR Its the closest we can get to forming a troupe. Ideally, Id love to have a troupe of ten to fifteen people. I didnt see Thatre de Complicit when they performed in Toronto. They studied at Lecoq; they were in Leahs year. Theyve been extremely successful. I talked to Dean Gilmour about them, and he thought that they wouldnt have survived in Canada. Hes probably right. In England, in Europe, theres more excitement and respect for the creation of theatre. KC Critics of your work have mentioned that the end result is not as strong as it should be, that there are always flaws and weaknesses. MR I agree. European troupes like Thatre de Complicit have the public support and funding to fully develop and realize a show. In a three week rehearsal period and a three week run here in Toronto, thats not possible. With creation, the work must evolve. So, of course our work has flaws. KC How do you and Co-Artistic Director Leah Cherniak split or share the duties of running a theatre while also working as artists? MR Leah often works outside Theatre Columbus. Weve been together for almost fifteen years, so were very used to having times when we work closely and see each other constantly, and then other times when were apart. We complement each other: she has a stronger business sense and a much more confident public presence while I prefer the back room work and the creative stuff. But when it comes down to it, weve survived this long, because we have a huge amount of respect and love for each other. And were good problem solvers. KC Have funding cuts affected Theatre Columbus? MR Were on what is called Operating Funding, which is a very secure position to be in. Or was a secure position. With the cuts from the Ministry of Citizenship and Culture, nothing is secure. With the likes of Mike Harris in power, cuts will continue. Theres a feeling that art just isnt a priority in this country. Our current budget is around $200,000, which allows Leah and I to receive a very small directors salary. But at least its something. We are more secure than a lot of other companies whove been cut from Operating Funding and are now having to re-apply for Project Grant money every year. Competition is intense and big decisions are being made. There are a lot of new artists and they deserve a chance too, but theres no money out there. Something has to change. KC Whats the Group of Seven? MR Ross Manson, founder of Volcano, decided that there should be a subscription series for alternative theatre. He approached six other companies who are artist-driven and create original work and together weve created just such a series. KC Is that the only way small theatres are going to survive, by banding together? MR I dont think that even mid-size theatres can make it on their own anymore. We definitely have to band together. KC What will you be working on in the future? MR Another piece about paranoia, about Canada in the year 2020. It takes place in a snow storm. What I find so interesting about this whole creation business is that the collective unconscious comes into play. Ive been reading press releases about other new projects in development and a few of them also take place in a snow storm. People must feel really isolated right now. And Canadian. Being caught in a snow storm must be quintessentially Canadian. Arthur Milner Interview bolated right now. And Canadian. Being caught in a snow storm must be quintessentially Canadian. Arthur Milner Interview by inuuljhfdb`^\ZXKrista Charbonneau Ottawa, January 25, 1997. Arthur Milner is a former Artistic Director of the Great Canadian Theatre Company and has served as the President of the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres. Selected Plays The City, 1990 Masada, 1990 Learning to Live With Personal Growth, 1987 Zero Hour, 1986 Cheap Thrill, 1985 1997, 1983 Krista Charbonneau How did you ome to work for the Great Canadian Theatre Company? Arthur Milner I had grown up in Montreal, and moved to Vancouver for threcome to work for the Great Canadian Theatre Company? Arthur Milner I had grown up in Montreal, and moved to Vancouver for three DH?S|BT?_|@`?k|>l?w|<x?|:?|8?|6?|4?|2?|0?|.?|,years when I was eighteen. I quit university, worked in construction and roofing and then bought some land with friends up near Thunder Bay. I left there after a few months for a job in Ottawa. I went back to university and took a few theatre courses. I travelled in Europe (in the mid 70s) for six months and when I came back, I replaced someone whod dropped out of rehearsals for a show at the Great Canadian Theatre Company (GCTC). Ive been connected to the company ever since. KC Tell me about the early years of GCTC. AM Originally the company was made up of a group of people, mostly from the English Department at Carleton University, who decided to form a theatre that would produce only Canadian plays. Part of the early rules was that to be a member of the Board of Directors you had to contribute $500, help with all aspects of production (including building sets, for example, or directing plays, or acting). It was a working Board. Later on, one person was designated Artistic Director, but for many years that position was more of a coordinator job. Today, the roles of Artistic Director and Board of Directors are more conventional. Board members arent expected to read all the plays the Artistic Director is considering; they approve the budget more than the playbill. Oh, and from the theatres founding in 1975 until 1987 everyone was paid the same salary. KC From the guy who swept the floor to actors to Artistic Director? AM Yes. The people hired on contracts would be paid an hourly wage equivalent. Annd we werent actually fanatical about this: when we had to hire a lawyer we didnt actually think we could get one to work for $100 per week. KC And thats what you got paid? AM In the bad years. And then in 1984, there was a huge financial crisis. When you run a facility, a building, you have a lot of added expenses for the company. We had to provide three years of projected revenue to get the money we needed for the building. (50% of that funding came through the provinces Wintario programme, 25% came from the regional municipality and the City of Ottawa, some we took on as debt, $35,000 was raised in cash from unions, individuals and small businesses) In the end, the entire project, from buying the building to completing the renovation, cost under $400,000. And we did it in fifty-one weeks, from the first visit to the real estate agent to opening night of the first production. In 1984, we drew up phony projections about how we would survive. Everything we did in terms of budgets in those days was... wel+4`D D R) D D 4fSk9fDD R) 4"S'9"D DES9'S9ES9D` 0R) D D R) HS9D'S9<=l, we just made them up because we didnt know how to do anything else. Our audits were always pending. For years we would just put Audit pending; audit due next September. And we knew that if we didnt get fairly substantial increases in government grants within one or two years we were toast. In those days, people would work for GCTC, be paid and then wed lay them off and theyd go on Unemployment Insurance. Then, when the UI ran out, wed re-hire them. We did a lot of illegal and semi-legal things, which is too bad. But I dont really regret doing them. KC Did those actions keep GCTC alive? AM I think so. Theres a kind of heroic phase in the development of a theatre company, where people are working for nothing and theyre scrimping and theyre stealing and theyre doing anything they can to survive. At the same time, theres a point at which a company needs to make the transition into a more institutionalized structure and begin to use better procedures. Its an interesting transition. It didnt really happen for us until we hired Linda Sword as Administrator in 1988. I was Resident Playwright and wed hired Steven Bush as the new Artistic Director. Linda stopped us from spending Project Grant money on equipment: she told us it was illegal and wouldnt let us do it. The company had reached a point in its development where we could actually do audits and keep track of the books. We were still working with a risk element, but no longer with the same level of risk that occasionally involves theft. KC In my research on GCTC, the transition periods stood out as interesting phases in the development of the theatre. What factors contributed to the changes? Economic forces? Personnel shifts? The building certainly impacted on the running of the company. AM Yes, all those areas that you identify impacted on us. Part of it too was the ageing of the people involved, who stopped wanting to work ninety hours a week. So that meant a larger staff. And with a larger staff, not everyone can be as integrally involved as when youre only three people practically living together. KC How did GCTC extract itself from the financial crisis it found itself in 1984? AM Taxes, the mortgage on the building, bigger staff, heating and toilet paper... Government funders were giving us 10% and 20% increases in our grants, but we needed more like 100% increases two years in a row to stay afloat. We started a massive publicity campaign about our difficulties and held a news conference the week before we went to the Ontario Arts Council (OAC) and the Canada Council. And we confronted them. Then they found ways to sneak us money. KC Sneak you money? AM None of those agencies had a fund for companies in trouble. So the OAC quickly gave us a project grant of $10,000 for a project already underway (so it was like cash in hand). The Department of Communications gave us $20,000 for a management study we never did (and they knew we would never do). I went to see the Assistant Deputy Minister in the Department of Communications, David Silcox, and I sat down and ran through the companys problems. I asked him, What would you do? and he answered, Well, the first thing I would do is make sure that I had none of my own money tied up in the company. Then the next thing I would do is psychologically prepare myself for...well, there comes a time when every organization or project runs out of steam and dies. I sat there with my mouth hanging open. It was as if he was giving me bereavement counselling. In any event, we got $20,000, raised $20,000 more in donations during an emergency campaign. We got over 600 letters written by the public to various levels of government on our behalf. The very next year the Liberals put $2 million dollars into the Arts Council and our grant went up $50,000. That saved us. Weve gone through crises since then, but not to that extent. One of the conditions the granting agencies stipulated before releasing funds to us was that we get a more normally structured Board of Directors. Our Board of seven people had been comprised of six staff members and one other person. The funders wanted more community people on the Board to assist with fundraising. We protested that Boards for small theatres dont raise funds, but our solution ultimately was to increase the number of directors to fourteen. We kept the seven staff Board positions and they are what we term working member positions comprised of professionals in the field of theatre. The other positions are filled by community members who are lawyers, bus drivers, accountants, whatever we can find. KC The original GCTC mandate was to produce only Canadian plays, use local Canadian theatre practitioners, whether amateur or professional, and whenever possible, to use works based on Ottawa and the region. AM We stuck with only producing Canadian plays until the second year of Steven Bushs reign, because he wanted to change that part of the mandate to something vague like when there is a good reason to, we will consider doing non-Canadian plays. We had always agreed that we would consider Canadian translations or adaptations of foreign plays as Canadian plays. For example, before the mandate change we produced a Canadian translation of work by Dario Fo. When I became Artistic Director in 1991, we produced Our Countrys Good by British playwright Timberlake Wertenbaker. Id read the play and loved it. And I just said, Were doing it. When GCTC was founded in 1975 it was extremely rare to see a Canadian play in Ottawa. Once every two or three years, you might see something at the National Arts Centre (NAC). But in the three years before our production of Our Countrys Good approximately twenty-four of thirty-one plays at the NAC were Canadian, by my tally. It was never GCTCs goal (or my goal) to produce only Canadian plays in Canada. We never really believed in that. To me it was a question of what was appropriate at the time. In fact, we thought that a narrow focus on Canadian writing could be detrimental. Canadian artists and audiences should know whats going on in other countries. We did lose one subscriber when we did our first non-Canadian play. Not too bad, eh? I mean maybe we lost more but one person actually wrote us a letter explaining why they were not re-subscribing to GCTC. KC Carleton University professor Lea Usin has written about the political content in the work of GCTC. Do you have any comments on her theory that the work has become less political over the years? AM She looks at our work by analyzing content. For example, how many times the word government is mentioned. And the word union. Because theres been a shift away from those types of political plays, Usin decides that weve moved away from political material in general. But then I think that she would consider my play Zero Hour a move away from the political too. KC Do you mean from Canadian politics? AM I dont know if youd call it specifically Canadian politics that it isnt about, by her terms. Zero Hour is really a fairly psychological piece about three guys in a jail cell. You cant count the number of government figures or union leaders who appear or dont appear in Zero Hour. But again, thats just not a series of qualifications or criteria that make sense to me. It may lack humility for me to say this, but for the ten years before Steven Bush was Artistic Director, and then during the time that I was Artistic Director after Steven, the theatres political cues came from me. I had the political connections, the friends in the union movement. I raised the money for the building from the people in the unions, along with Patrick McDonald who teaches at Carleton University. In the days leading up to owning the building and for a little while after that we did a lot of agit-prop theatre at union strike sites and rallies. Someone would have two weeks to write a piece, wed rehearse it in a day and then perform for 5,000 people at a rally. It was fantastic. We did one of these shows during the period when we were trying to raise money for the building. We were performing a half hour piece wed written for a Canadian Labour Council National Conference on health and safety in the workplace. The event took place at a big hotel ballroom for an audience of 500 people. We got permission from the organizers to make a pitch for money to the audience from the stage after the play. Well, the play was a huge hit and we made our announcement and passed out blank cheques: we raised around $2,300 from that audience in one night! We did another performance in the middle of a strike for the Public Service Alli d ,Z  -P-P/" *-/" $6,-0BY,-/" -/p-!a!GC,-/P" F&a,-/0" -/ ,-/,ance of Canada and thousands of people were chanting thank you as the actors left the stage. We got free printing from the unions for a long time. KC Whats the basis of your fascination with Nicaragua? It figures in both Zero Hour and Sandinista!. AM We were approached by a group from CUSA and OXFAM to write a play about Latin America. They raised somewhere in the vicinity of $25,000 for the project, and sent Patrick McDonald and me to Nicaragua for two weeks to research. Sandinista! opened the new theatre building. You know, as a playwright you have to tell the truth. Sandinista! is a heavily biased play, but we felt compelled to write an interesting Nazi character, rather than a stupid one. We created a National Guard captain who wasnt just a cut-out figure. Our approach was that we had to write the bad guys as well as we were writing the good guys. We had to give the bad guys the strongest arguments we could in order to make them real. KC Theres been criticism of the name of the theatre company. AM I hate it. I wasnt around when it was chosen, but the story is that there was a bunch of names and no one could agree to one of them. Somebody said, So what the fuck are we going to call this great Canadian theatre company? And someone else said, The Great Canadian Theatre Company! And it stuck. When we got the building there was talk of changing the name of the theatre. But what would we change the name to? I would be happy calling it the Capital Theatre, or something of that nature. I would tell anyone, if youre starting a new theatre company, then pick a name you can grow with. Dont pick a name like The Fucked in the Head Theatre Company, because it might suit the type of work you want to do now and the twenty-two people you expect to get in the audience for each show. Its not a name youre going to grow with. KC Where do you think Canadian Theatre is going? AM Im disappointed in Canadian playwrights because I dont think they take on themes that are big enough. KC What do you consider a big theme? AM Our place in the world. Issues that are philosophical, political, social, religious. Life, death, love... Look at the great playwrights, those European men like Chekhov, Ibsen, Shakespeare, Brecht, Shaw, OCasey: theyre writing about big things. A lot of their writing has to do with the family, but its against a historical backdrop that resonates. The lack of commitment on the part of the big theatre companies to develop playwrights is a scandal. They have the budgets, after all, to do just that. They might have the ability to isolate $50,000 for commissioning monies. Good playwrights can write big plays for big theatres. But the large scale theatre companies dont develop or commission those works and then they complain that there arent Canadian plays for them to produce. I find that reprehensible. Bill James Interview by charles pavia Toronto, January 27, 1997. Bill James is a choreographer, Artistic Director of Atlas Moves Watching Dance Projects and former Artistic Director of Dans Watching Dance Projects and former Artistic Director of Dancemakers. Selected Works Terminus, 1997 Wind, 1996 Inferno, 1995 Flux, 1994 Serpent Lines, 1994 The Nomad Project, 1994 Deluge, 1993 1994 Serpent Lines, 1994 The Nomad Project, 1994 Deluge, 1993 Water, 1993 Seven Mountains, 1992 In the Trees, 1990 Predators of Light (with composer Rodney Sharman and architect Dereck Revington), 1990 Creuser jusquen Chine, 1988 Geography, 1987 Atlas Moves Watching, 1985 charles pavia How would you describe your work: dance, theatre or performance? Bill James Ultimately, I end up with performance. Lots of things happen before that. IIItry to set up a series of different situations, an environment. Environment may be the wrong term: a psychological situation w try to set up a series of different situations, an environment. Environment may be the wrong term: a psychological situation whevEEtQQr]]piinuuljhfd7?|.?|,re the audience can get at the ideas contained in the piece from different entry points. I try to open those entry points by either making the situation intimate, playing with the space or contrasting huge distances with extreme closeness. cp You did that with Geography, which was performed in a factory space the size of a football field. BJ Yes. Thats the first piece where I really worked that way. I did it because I wanted to work with the element of time within history, and the best way to achieve time was to move the audience through a huge space. More recently, Ive begun to approach a work from its contained emotions, feelings, sensations, trying to reach the audience on a more visceral level. Originally, I began with audiences approaching my work physically. Im trying to accomplish the same things, just in a more internal way instead of being fascinated by the use of external space. My most recent piece, Wind, will be presented in the largest space Ive ever used: an airplane hangar. The inspiration for the piece is the place itself. By the time the audience gets inside, they are already there, though not necessarily prepared to be there. cp Are you planning any other site specific work? BJ Im planning to develop a work for the Alexander Street Theatre, as part of an ongoing collaboration with architect/artist Dereck Revington. The first work we did together for the stage was conceived for the du Maurier Theatre Centre, and then moved to Montreal and Ottawa. It was less successful outside of the original space, which is very deep. Were continuing the exploration with which we started that piece. It focusses first on the edges of perception where you first start to hear or see something, and then the extreme where you hear or see so much that you cant hear or see anything anymore. cp Do you re-visit themes in your work? BJ I work within several overlapping threads of ideas. What happens in one work may not be present in the next, but may reappear years later. One work may influence another, but theyre different. cp The elements figure prominently in your work in just this way. BJ Over the past four years, the work Ive been doing has been inspired by water. I intended to use water as a jumping off point, but the work eventually became an evoccation of water. Water was never far from the piece in performance, so it became a literal playing with water. I want to find the most mundane, real use of the elements. If Im working on a piece about earth, Ill work with real earth. Similarly, if the piece is about fire, Ill work with fire. So in that sense, my work is an ongoing and continuous use of an idea, even though each work looks completely different and responds differently to the element. For example, Serpent Lines (about the element of earth) was extremely static and slow moving. Flux (about water) and Wind (about air) are about elements that move more easily. In that sense, the works Ive created over the past six years are really centred in a single idea, exploring the elements, exposed in different ways. The element work has become a part of me. Images that speak tangibly about something are very strong. I like to work with powerful points of departure, mainly because Im no longer using literary text sources for my work. I did when I first started and Ive had to find something that will constantly bring me back, as text did, so I dont get lost in the free form of creating something nebulous. cp Can you speak about your period of work with Dancemakers and how it influenced your work. BJ I was brought in to direct the company, though that really wasnt my track. At the time I had just completed my second major work and I wasnt feeling terribly ambitious. I then had to face the responsibility of being an Artistic Director, and the huge differences between my work and the kind of work that Dancemakers had been doing. I was a bridge for the company: I was there for two and a half years and then Serge Bennathan could take the company somewhere within its own tradition. Leaving Dancemakers left me free to work unfettered. My own work has never been about dance or theatre or music. Its been about ideas and the way I want to present ideas. Before working with Dancemakers, I was a dancer with Le Groupe de la Place Royale for ten years, in Montreal and in Ottawa. When I left, the first work I created was Atlas Moves Watching, a piece that I made by camping out in a storefront window. I interviewed homeless people on the streets of Toronto. I was reading Thomas Merton. All these components came together. This was the work that really established me. It was a new direction, independent from whatever experience I had as a dancer. Being Artistic Director at Dancemakers, two years later was, in a way, a mistake. I didnt do anything significant with my work in that situation. cp But couldnt your work be included easily in the repertoire of a dance company? BJ Well, no. Ive never been interested in fitting into a set of parameters for dance-touring on a stage thats thirty feet by forty feet. Ive done this, but the best work Ive done for the stage was at the University of Quebec at Montreal, with students. I sliced the stage in half, from the back of the auditorium right through to the back of the stage and the audience had to sit on one side or the other. Depending on their choice of seat and side, they had a completely different perspective. I dont mean to say that thats a particularly significant idea, but thats how I like to work. I have been informed as an artist by people who have done things to the theatre space. I saw Peter Steins Aeschylus Trilogy (1980) in Berlin, where he removed every single seat in the space and all that was left was the concrete rake of the auditorium. Then he set a huge, long table in the middle of the auditorium, and the Greek chorus were old men in baggy clothes, wearing grey make-up, sitting around the table. When Aeschylus entered, he came in on a railway track, down the aisles, and the stage space functioned only as a doorway. All the action occurred in the auditorium, except when Medea killed everybody and a river of blood began to flow through the doorway, into the orchestra pit. I was impressed. A few years later, I tried to think of ways to use the theatre in that way. cp Is your architectural background a factor in your work? Do you look at theatres as buildings with principles to be aligned and perverted rather than sacred spaces? BJ Possibly. Ive always been critical of architecture, especially theatre architecture. I became bored with architecture quickly because I realized how set it was. The actual practice is deadly. Thats why I latched onto performance, where there are fewer boundaries to the imagination, where you can create anything you want for a time. cp You were born in the United States, but youve lived here for a long time. BJ Im 45 and Ive lived here since I was 22. cp Do you consider yourself Canadian or American? BJ Canadian more than American. Some people define Canadian as W. O. Mitchell, writing about the Prairies... its just so regional. Here in Toronto, were exposed to so many different cultures. Its someone dreaming about her parents in India or her grandmother in Ecuador: thats as Canadian as W. O. Mitchell. For years people have been asking, What is Canada? We dont have to go through that nation/state step that creates repression and xenophobia: is it me, me, me or us, us, us? I dont believe in borders. Im not a Canadian nationalist. I dont think I am. I probably have more loyalty to Toronto. cp Before Inferno (about the element of fire) premiered, I remember reading in many newspapers that it was the first time you had openly confronted, in your art, your homosexuality and its place in your life. BJ In 1984 I did a duet/trio (a male dance duet with a percussionist), but it wasnt directly about sexuality or sexual expression. But the fact that two men were in close physical contact gave off all kinds of energies and I wasnt trying to direct the imagery away from that. How I respond on personal and artistic levels are different. Ive been openly gay for as long as I can remember: I came out to my parents when I was sixteen. Ive always identified with the Outsider and thats why I do the work I do. That has a lot to do with my role in society as a homosexual man. Im in turmoil right now, because Im in the middle of making a film about my sexuality, and Im stuck. I dont know how to start, but its something I want to do. In terms of semiotics though, I havent done lots of reading on the subject. I enjoy the fact that being queer doesnt necessarily mean being gay: it falls out of the boundaries of gay and straight, out of the bounds of normalcy. Stewart Lemoine Interview by Rosemary Rowe Edmonton, Alberta, December, 1996. Stewart Lemoine is a Dora and Sterrmalcy. Stewart Lemoine Interview by Rosemary Rowe Edmonton, Alberta, December, 1996. Stewart Lemoine is a Dora and Sterlii7p^3&7pUaG:c7p9;1Y7p8#" 1Y7png award-winning playwright and director. He is the Artistic Director of Teatro la Quindicina and a theatre for young audiences company called Teatro Bambino. Selected Plays Pith, 1997 The Lake of the Heart, 1997 Evelyn Strange, 1995 Connie in Egypt, 1994 Shockers Delight!, 1993 The Book of Tobit, 1993 The Glittering Heart, 1990 When Girls Collide, 1989 The Vile Governess, 1986 Cocktails at Pams, 1986 Rosemary Rowe What attracted you to theatre initially? Stewart Lemoine In school you cant really cktails at Pams, 1986 Rosemary Rowe What attracted you to theatre initially? Stewart Lemoine In school you cant really pup" T?_|@Pk|>l?w|<x?|:?|8?|6?|4?|2?|0?|.?|,t on an opera or make a movie, but you can put on a little play. Its an accessible thing. And I grew up in a city where there was a lot of theatre. I remember going to childrens theatre performances at the Public Library when I was in Grade 3 and thinking, This is the best thing in the world to do and those people on stage, theyre like huge, huge stars and I worship them. I did everything else kids do too: I watched movies and television and read a lot. But theatre was the natural medium for me to participate in. High school drama was a refuge from math and an opportunity to hang out with colourful people. RR When did you write your first play? SL I used to write little playlets in high school, but as far as sitting down and writing a play...well, I didnt do that until the first Edmonton Fringe Festival. Then I started writing after that. It was the third Fringe before I actually wrote a whole play and not until I was 24 or 25 that I wrote a two-act play. RR How did you become involved in the first Edmonton Fringe Festival? SL A friend who had studied at Grant MacEwan College called me up and said, Theres this thing called the Fringe Festival and we can put on a play and no one can stop us! There was no application fee at that point. You simply came down to the office, filled out a form and were given a performance slot. We were told, You can have all the money if anyone comes. You can spend whatever you want. Youll be listed in our little programme. And I thought, Great. So we threw a show together and hoped that it would catch on. And it did. RR You direct most of your own work. Do other theatres also perform your plays? SL No. Not very often. I havent sent most of my plays out, because Im usually just too busy to do it. Id have to re-type the script and put in all the changes that happen during a production. Also, when people do my work they tend to take license with it. They decide that its big so they can make it even bigger; they decide that any response they get will be appropriate as long as the piece is hilarious and wild. So the work gets relentless and the dialogue is obscured and the simple vivid things suddenly have other vivid things right beside them. Somebody produced When Girls Collide last year in Red Deer, Alberta. I went to see it and it was alright, because hed actually seen both of my own previous productions. I thought that with an hour of notes I could clean up the production and it would be okay. Its not impossible, but its hard to make your stage directions so specific that other directors wont screw up. RR When did you found Teatro la Quindicina? SL In the first year of the Edmonton Fringe, 1982. There was a line on the application form that asked for Name of Company. At the time a friend of mind was reading Travels With My Aunt, so thats where the name comes from. The whole thing felt like a joke then. Were still paying for it. We go to speak to school children and they ask what our name means. And we have to answer, Well, theres this book, and theres this woman, and she was a prostitute.... RR When did the theatre become an incorporated company? SL In 1988, after six years of doing Fringe shows. We were at the point where the City of Edmonton, Parks and Recreation and the Alberta Foundation (which Iwas then called Alberta Culture) were offering us money. So we incorporated, formed a Board of Directors, and it all started to make a little more sense. At the same time, we started doing shows at Workshop West. We were part of their season for three years. That was a legitimizing of our work, in a way, because it was outside of the Fringe. We were part of a subscription series where audiences werent necessarily Fringe-goers. That was around the same time that we were invited to perform The Vile Governess in Toronto at Buddies in Bad Times Theatre. (I didnt know who Buddies in Bad Times or Sky Gilbert were.) Actually, that was pre-incorporation and I remember paying everyone in cash. Then in 1990, Artistic Director Jackie Maxwell of Factory Theatre heard a review of The Glittering Heart on the radio and asked us to send her a script. We performed it in Toronto the next year. RR Is your company now working permanently out of the Varscona Theatre? SL We took over the lease on the building. Its a city owned property that the Fringe leased originally, but no longer use. Well continue to do a couple of shows a year there, and maybe some late-night programming and special events. RR How many plays have you written? SL Oh, I dont know. Thirty-something. Two or three a year. RR Do you get grants? SL Sometimes. In the last two years, Ive received good, healthy grants from the Alberta Foundation. RR What are you working on currently? SL I just started a commission for the Fringe Theatre Adventures, a one-act play for the touring company. It has to be on a sensitive teen issue, so Ive chosen dating as reflected in every subject in the high school curriculum. RR You seem to be fascinated by opera. SL I got interested in opera when I was very young, perhaps as an extension of my love for childrens stories where improbable things happen. Its an art form that goes to the limit, and I went to the limit early on (and I dont really know how to come back now!). I like the emotional richness of opera and its structure. Its overblown, but also has a simplicity. And a connection to old world cultures. Rich people like opera and I like rich people. RR Were you born here in Edmonton? SL My father is a French Canadian from Manitoba, from a small town outsideke rich people. RR Were you born here in Edmonton? SL My father is a French Canadian from Manitoba, from a small town outside o;P >`PaPGr3=@" L9=p" Gl= =Ы0:(Y= f Winnipeg, and my mother is an Anglo-Ontarian from Sioux Lookout in Northern Ontario. Both my parents are resolutely Canadian, with ancestors that go back in my dads case for around four hundred years. I moved to Edmonton from Manitoba when I was eight years old. Everything else, like all the Hungarian elements, are just lacquered on. RR For example, the Biedermeier business in Shockers Delight!? SL I cant tell you that it comes from some weird childhood experience with a Biedermeier table, but rather just from having eyes and ears open. I was interested in historical material and what was going on outside Edmonton. You cant spend your life travelling the world, looking at things, but you certainly can absorb them and create something here at home that brings us little souvenirs of other cultures. Its invaluable to remind Canadians of what else is in the world rather than simply exposing them to insights into their own culture. Cynthia Grant Interview by Carolyn Farrell Toronto, November, 1996. Director and theatre-maker Cynthia Grant was a member of the founding Artistic Collective of Nightwood Theatre and founding and current Artistic Director of Company of Sirens. Carolyn Farrell When did you become aware that you wanted to make theatre? Cynthia Grant Certainly by the time I was a teenager. In fact, I attended the Banff School of Fine Arts when I was sixteen. Between that time and my second year of University, I also became interested in world affairs and Latin American studies. My love of thrtainly by the time I was a teenager. In fact, I attended the Banff School of Fine Arts when I was sixteen. Between that time and my second year of University, I also became interested in world affairs and Latin American studies. My love of th love of theatre re-emerged when I saw the avant-garde work being created at the UC Playhouse at University of Toronto and I began to do a lot of work there: I realized at one point that I was spending most of my time in the theatre instead of in the classroom. After graduating, I spent an additional year at the UC Playhouse, during the year when Jo-ann Akalaitas of the New York based theatre group Mabou Mines was teaching. From there, I went to New York and did a residency with Mabou Mines through a grant from Theatre Ontario. When I returned, a group of us decided to create a theatre to mount a stage version of the novel The True Story of Ida Johnson. CF What were your goals when you formed Nightwood Theatre, and do you feel that these goals were realized? CG Unbelievable as it may seem in this era, in 1978, when I founded Nightwood Theatre, very few (if any) companies were female-led. The first time The Globe and Mail interviewed me they asked, Why did you form a womans theatre company? and I answered, Why do you assume its a womans theatre company? So part of our self-definition became how we were perceived in the community. To that extent, I, like many other woman artists, have had to grapple with how much we self-identify as women artists, feminist artists, etcetera. Its only as more and more numbers of women enter our field that this question stops being asked. Or theres a level of prominence at which that question isnt asked. I dont think Margaret Atwood is asked about being a woman, or is typed as a woman writer. She still is, though, asked questions that reflect that same mind-set. There has been a huge amount of change over the past twenty years with respect to identity politics and women in the arts. But we still have a long way to go. CF Was the reception different when you formed Company of Sirens? Had the attitude and climate changed for a so-called womans theatre company? CG By then there were other companies run by women. Theatre Columbus had been founded, run by women who didnt particularly identify themselves as women. Some of the mid-sized theatre companies had been run by women. But the issue is still relevant: Canadian Stage, Tarragon, Stratford and the Shaw have never been run by women. The community within which we formed Company of Sirens was quite different. The company was and continues to be far more community based than Nightwood, working in coalition with groups like the YWCA, womens shelters, union movements. The union movement was actually key in the formation of Company of Sirens: the play we launched under the umbrella of Nightwood Theatre, The Working Peoples Picture Show, went on to play in many union settings. Over time, situations and questions have changed and womens positions in those situations have also alteredЫ +` Ы0+T"  @ L  q "  p" ذ" Gl+Dp@" . For example, today the concept of equality and pay equity are understood to be inalienable rights in the workplace. But we are still faced with the problem of enacting and enforcing gender equity. Some people just dont realize how far we still have to go. However, there has been enough change in theatre that on my good days you wont hear me complain a lot. Ive seen huge improvement for women playwrights, directors and performers. Im probably feeling more bleak about commercial culture and the images of women in that area. As a parent of two young children, Im appalled at the dominance of Walt Disney culture, which is problematic in its representation of gender and race. So much of my own career has been devoted to improving things in terms of representation, identity and stereotypes, only to find out that kids culture is worse than when I grew up, in the 50s. I find it difficult to fathom why that is. CF Why did you choose to found Company of Sirens in 1986 and what was the original mandate of the company? CG The formation of Sirens had a lot to do with the growth that was happening at Nightwood. When we started Nightwood, for the first two years I was the only person in the group directing plays. By 1985, a number of the actors in the company had projects that they wanted to bring to fruition. In addition to the Nightwood women, there were also the Sirens people, like Lina Chartrand, Amanda Hale and Peggy Sample: far too many to house under just one roof. There also wasnt enough money to fund all the projects. And for me, as a director, there wasnt enough room to do all the projects I wanted to do. That was perhaps the primary reason: a number of women who hadnt initially sought leadership within the company now wanted to initiate and develop their own projects. Another reason for founding Sirens was that there were a number of women in the company who were more involved in community issues and politics. They were more actively engaged feminists within the growing feminist movement in the community. Sirens was formed with a very strong sense of the need to do theatre that would be socially relevant in community settings. It would be a professional company that performed outside of regular theatres. What we didnt anticipate was how welcoming the community would be to the Sirens and to this type of work. Sirens launched in 1986, and by 1990-91 was running on a budget in excess of half a million dollars. This is double what Nightwoods budget has ever been! Sirens became involved in a swell of aactivity around social justice issues, particularly in terms of gender and race. We started out creating plays about women in the workplace, pay equity, day care, pink collar workers, and we were doing these plays at the same time that the labour movement was organizing around these very issues. By 1989 we had included work about violence against women, at a time when the provincial government was pouring millions of dollars into opening shelters and creating public education campaigns. We became a vital component of those campaigns. When the Interministerial Committee on Violence Against Women sat down to talk, they were speaking about Company of Sirens. We undertook contract work with the Ministry of Education, the Attorney General, and we even worked with the Solicitor General, training police officers to deal with violence against women. From there, Sirens moved into anti-racist work. The reason we went in that direction is because people asked us to do so. We were invited to create work that could address a variety of issues in a cultural context, and by 1990, we had launched a massive anti-racist project that toured for two years and included eight people. There were also other theatres in Canada responding to the social justice movement and the related societal issues. In Alberta, Jan Selman founded Catalyst Theatre. There was Headline Theatre in British Columbia, groups in Newfoundland and in Victoriaville, Quebec, a company that became known for their bilingual work. So the mid-1980s through to the early 1990s were the heyday of this type of theatre company. There came to be an awareness on the part of the public and the government policy makers that theatre could be used as a transformative educational tool. CF Do you think there is such a thing as a female aesthetic, and if so, has Company of Sirens embodied that aesthetic? CG Yes. I do think that a female aesthetic exists, just as I think that there are gender differences. What we do have to look out for is that social conditioning may knock those attributes right out of us and in the end, we may end up behaving similarly to men. I always remind myself that on the political scene, weve seen Margaret Thatcher come to power and run a government in perhaps a more masculine tradition than men themselves would have. The term Iron Lady reflected how people perceived Thatcher as coming from a male, war-like model. Feminists like to speak about a more peaceful, inclusive approach by women, whether theyre talking of religion, corporate behaviour or even artistic endeavour. All you need to do is look at some of the female rulers who have taken power to realize that its not quite that simple. Canadian visual artist Joyce Wieland and American Judy Chicago show through the body of work theyve produced that they are part of the surfacing of a specifically female aesthetic. On a personal basis, I would say that in the early years of my career I was working within an avant-garde framework and my own work takes an entirely different direction from 1985 onwards, with the odd side project to explore a feminist aesthetic. A piece like Penelope is where you see me as a woman artist trying to work through a feminist aesthetic with feminist content. (And that content was provided by Margaret Atwood re-telling Homers Odyssey from a womans point of view.) Right now, Id say that Gilles Maheu of Carbone 14 in Quebec is close to operating with what I consider a feminist aesthetic. But generally, after all these years of working in theatre, were not seeing end results that reflect much of a feminist aesthetic, or a womans aesthetic. The repositioning and centrality of women is part of a feminist aesthetic. In terms of representation on the stage and how women are represented, in works written and staged by men, the secondary nature of women characters is still quite clear. CF How has Canadian theatre has changed during your career and where do you think its heading? CG When I came on the professional theatre scene in 1978, my community of colleagues included Richard Rose, Sky Gilbert, Thom Sokolowski and Richard Shoichet. Those four men and I formed the Theatre Centre, which at that time was unique in providing cross-collaborative ground and a shared performance space. The theatres that were larger than us were Tarragon, Passe Muraille, Factory and Free Theatre. Then within a few years, I guess Id mark it from the beginning of the Fringe, the community went wild. It was like bunnies propagating. We went from being a small theatre community to engendering scores of companies. The landscape is very different now than it was in 1978. Ive also gone through the boom years of more and more dollars going into the cultural sector. Until two years ago. One of the worries that we middle-aged artists have that we arent going to survive the cuts. We worry that people coming out of the universities who can still live on no money and do theatre on a volunteer basis will survive, but that thats not what we all fought for. We were fighting for the right to do theatre and get paid for it. Im sympathetic to the situation that young people find themselves in because they dont have the opportunities that were available to my generation. I cant open doors for young women directors the way I could ten years ago. I cant tip people off as to what grants to apply for, because the grants are drying up rapidly. Both Sirens and Nightwood started with grants from the now defunct Explorations Programme at The Canada Council. Its a very different world. What have I seen? A maturation of Cana now defunct Explorations Programme at The Canada Council. Its a very different world. What have I seen? A maturation of Canadi@`3?Ы00@A" L>@Bp" GlABp0EAan theatre. Im old enough to have seen some of the early work at Passe Muraille, Factory, Tarragon, even though I was in university at the time. Ive seen Canadian theatre move into an expanding continuum of styles and content. Ive seen the growth of the clown movement. The growth of the new avant-garde artists. Ive seen a lot of activity. And Ive already mentioned how Sirens was able to develop into a professional company where a number of us worked pretty much full time, travelling outside of theatre settings, presenting plays to audiences that ranged from Crown Attorneys to prison guards to high school students. CF Do you think this growth and development in Canadian theatre has continued, or has it stalled? CG Were not still going. Were not even stalled. Were being decimated. Millions of dollars are being taken out of the cultural sector. In the case of Company of Sirens this means that in the 1995-96 fiscal year we received an Operating Grant of $36,000 and in 1996-97 that grant base was taken away from us completely. Instead, we received a Project Grant of $12,000, so were down to one-third of what we had last year from one level of government funding. And we are not alone. Several other theatre companies, most of which were founded less than fifteen years ago, have been cut off from Operating Funds and forced back onto Project Grants. At other levels of government funding, we anticipate that in the next two years there will be radical change at either Metro Cultural Affairs or at the Toronto Arts Council. The likelihood is that Metro Cultural Affairs will lose most, if not all of their budget, and that will remove millions of dollars more out of the Toronto cultural scene. So this is not a stalling period for Canadian culture, but a period of decimation. CF In an article in NOW Magazine in 1991, you are quoted as saying that there is a rigid hierarchy in the theatre community, and that if you arent visible downtown, then you dont exist. Do you feel that youve been marginalized or isolated by the Toronto theatre community? CG During what Ive termed the rapid growth period at Sirens, we did feel undervalued by our colleagues in the theatre community. We went from a budget of $150,000 to over half a million dollars in five years, but were relatively unknown in the theatre community. This was a period of exciting development for popular theatre and for feminist theatre, and our cultural colleagues perhaps bought into an elitist perspective in terms of what is of value in the arts. If people h, and our cultural colleagues perhaps bought into an elitist perspective in terms of what is of value in the arts. If people hadGPp" 1YF`GP" GIPG0" G0 " F`" examined our work about violence against women, it would have challenged their own practises in terms of representation of women within the Toronto theatre scene. Womens culture can have a broad base of support and we would like people to understand that. Its not that we have been marginalized consciously, or that we are consciously isolating ourselves. Toronto as a whole hasnt always seen us as we really are, or recognized the incredible work weve done towards pioneering a new era of theatre. Jim Garrard Interview by Seamus Kelleher Kingston, Ontario, November, 1996. Playwright Jim Garrard was the founding Artistic Director of Theatre Passe Muraille, President of Rochdale College and icurrent Artistic Director of Salon Theatre Productions and Dires the current Artistic Director of Salon Theatre Productions and Director of Kingston Summer Festival. Selected Plays Photo Project, 1994 Peggys Song, 1988 Fourteen, 1984 Cold Comfort, 1981 Gettinground. Jim Garrard I was born in Northern Ontario. My f Even, 1979 Seamus Kelleher Tell me a little bit about your background. Jim Garrard I was born in Northern Ontario. My fam|" Qr]iinuuljh7?|2?|0?|.?|,ily moved south, and I lived in Oshawa until I finished high school. Then I did a year of Teachers College in Toronto. I was actually an elementary school principal for three years: in those days you didnt need a university degree to teach. I was interested in theatre from about Grade 12 onwards. I got involved in amateur theatre, and joined a little theatre in Welland. I ended up in Kingston at Queens University and part of my degree involved taking theatre courses. I directed plays every chance I could get. Fred Euringer was appointed Head of the Theatre Department at Queens when I was there, and he did a really interesting production of Durrenmatts The Visit in the early 1960s. I was also involved with the Royal Military College Theatre at the sameUaGc 侠@1Y 侀P" 1Y 0" 0 "  0" AC@C p HH time. After that training, I ended up at London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts (LAMDA) in England, intending to study acting with a view to direction. In London, I saw a production of Rochelle Owens Futz by New Yorks Caf La Mama. And then I saw Tom Paine, by Paul Foster, at Londons Vaudeville Theatre. It was fluid. It was an ensemble. They were like hippies, with everyone playing a musical instrument, singing whether or not they could really sing. It was theatre in a 1960s-New York-Epic style. I came back to Canada after about two years in London and went to one of the Arts Councils and just said, I want to start a theatre, and they responded, Why dont you just go to Stratford. I wasnt interested in that and there was nothing like the La Mama company here in Canada to join up with. The woman at the Council suggested that I go to Rochdale College, a new kind of liberal arts college. I went there, ostensibly to teach, and Rochdale ended up being a kind of hippie university where I set up Theatre Passe Muraille as a three part model theatre. One part of the model was as an education theatre for college members. Another part was for members of the community and the third part was mandated to be the professional core. That meant something different in the late 1960s: we gathered a group who had some serious experience somewhere in design, or acting, or focussing lights and we were the ones who organized the classes, as it were, which turned into a production within Rochdale. We would also go out into the community and teach and organize recreational programmes everywhere from high schools to high rises, anywhere where we could proselytise with our trust games and improvisation exercises. Theatre Passe Muraille was born out of Rochdale. SK What exactly was Rochdale? JG Rochdale was loosely affiliated with University of Toronto for many years as a co-op housing concern run by graduate students. The 60s were pretty loose and very experimental, so the graduate students went out and actually raised $9 million dollars of government funding to build an eighteen storey high-rise in downtown Toronto (where the Senator David A. Croll Residence for Senior Citizens is today). This building would house a liberal arts college which could grant degrees independent of University of Toronto. Well, what actually happened was that the place was suddenly very liberal, and became full of hippies and drugs. In those days there werent university residences that were officially co-educational or that even permitted women to sleep with men in their rooms. At Rochdale, all of a sudden students and pseudo-students were living together, and that attracted a lot of media attention. Id come back from England with notions of communal theatre and plays Id seen produced in that style, and I was looking for a place to live. Rochdale was perfect. I became the King of Rochdale: they gave me money and we built a theatre in the sub-basement and mounted shows. Our first production was Tom Paine, and it was similar to what Id seen La Mama do in England. It was shut down before we even opened, for technical reasons. I talked on the telephone to Paul Foster, the playwright, because we had applied for the rights and I confronted him, saying Whats going on here? Your whole play is about this kind of thing not happening? He answered, Well, Jim, Im an American and Americans are tainted. So we showed the performance to three or four invited audiences down in the basement. This was a truly seminal event. Then we produced Owens Futz, at the Central Library Theatre (which is now the University of Toronto Bookstore/Koffler Centre) and we got totally busted. There was a little nudity in the show and some lines that went something like, Doesnt anybody fuck anymore? Police came and served notice and we were in the courts for about a year. Finally, the charges were dropped against everybody except four of us, and we went to trial under the Canadian Obscenity Laws. We lost, but two of my partners were lawyers and they couldnt risk being disbarred. We took the judge to see the production of the musical Hair that was playing at the Royal Alexandra Theatre and we proved to him that this was the community standard of respectability. The judge bought the argument and threw the case out of court. So those were really the first two Theatre Passe Muraille productions. We took the next step and decided to gather together a company of twelve people, a manager and a designer. The minister of the little church that now sits with the Eaton Centre wrapped around it called us and invited us to be the resident theatre group in their church hall. This became the first home of Theatre Passe Muraille. We started to get a little money from the government funders and we tried to pay people $25 a week. Martin Kinch, who later was involved with Toronto Free Theatre and much later Theatre Calgary, came in to direct a revival of Tom Paine, while I went out to look for money. Around this time, Paul Thompson returned from his schooling in Europe, via Montreal, and the three of us formed a triumvirate, trying to mount shows with titles like The Metropolitan Toronto Police Dossier with our core company. Today you might write a play on that topic and look at both sides of the issue, but in those days it was simple: the cops are bad, authoritys bad, the pigs are bad, the War is bad. By that point, I was exhausted, and decided to move out west to Simon Fraser University to teach. I got there and realized that I was sick of improvisation. So we created something I called Survival Theatre, which I considered to be the opposite of improvisation. You still didnt know what you were going to do, and you were still inventing, but according to specific rules. Survival Theatre meant that you suppressed thinking before acting whereas in improv you think and act simultaneously. Meanwhile, Martin went to Stratford to assistant direct and Paul stayed with TPM. Id come back for two months out of each year and direct a production. Paul started developing collective creations, like The Farm Show, that stabilized the theatre company and began to attract money. I think Theatre Passe Muraille would have disintegrated except for Paul, who cut all kinds of costs and got people to work for nothing. SK How much influence did the drug culture and the freedom of the era have on the company? JG They were at least 50% responsible for most of the decisions that were made. But the 60s as a whole was an influence, just as the Vietnam War was. Canada was filled with Americans who were either dodging the draft or deserting from the army. TPMs first designer was an American named Frank Masi whod escaped to Canada with his wife, an actress. Hed been at Kent State University during the protests when the Ohio Militia shot and killed several students. I was around twenty-six years old when I went to Rochdale, and most of the hippie generation were about two or three years younger than I was. So I was always a bit of a father figure, maybe just a little more sober, and I had actually finished my university degree. Drugs still influenced me: I dropped a lot of acid at Rochdale and that made me see the world in a different way. Rochdale had internal conflicts about drugs, though there was certainly dope everywhere. There was a constant battle between the soft and the hard drugs. We would see people we knew dying from amphetamine abuse, so it wasnt just a big party. SK When you left TPM in 1969 was it because the times had changed? JG I was tired. Really burnt out. Getting Rochdale going and keeping it going took a few years, and then doing the same with TPM was exhausting work. But I was a youngster and had lots of energy then. We all had lots of energy. I thought that being the Resident Theatre Artist at Simon Fraser University, this place built in the clouds, would be great, but I didnt enjoy myself at all out there. I didnt like the West Coast. So I came back to Toronto, directed a show, played the horses for a few years. I got started again around 1976, when I produced The Ballad of Jack of Diamonds in Kingston, written by Phil Schreibman and starring Booth Savage. I started writing and directing my own shows around this time, and I probably havent evolved much since 1979. I think pretty much what I thought then, and I do pretty much what I did then. SK Where did the name Theatre Passe Muraille come from? JG Theres a book of short stories by French writer Marcel Aym that was on the first year French course book list when my wife was in England, doing a university correspondence course. I looked at this little pocket book from France and asked her, What does passe muraille mean? and she answered, Oh, it means passing through walls. I got her to tell me the story, about a well-known French character named Passe Partout, who had the ability to passgh walls. I got her to tell me the story, about a well-known French character named Passe Partout, who had the ability to pass t22R) L}L} R) L} L{L} R) 'ªL} hrough everything. One day, he lost his power to move through solid mass, just as he was in the middle of a wall, so he got stuck there. The difference between a mur and a muraille in French was that the first is just a wall, and the second is a very thick wall, like the Great Wall of China, so I thought that theatre that could pass through walls as thick as the Great Wall of China was what we were looking for. And we named the theatre Theatre Passe Muraille. In those days, there was little emphasis on biculturalism or bilingualism in Ontario. People never seemed to know how to pronounce Theatre Passe Muraille or know what it meant, but that meant that there was a certain interest in us. SK What do you think of theatre that doesnt require a specific space or building in which to perform? What do you think of Augusto Boal, for example? JG Those types of theatre are good and bad, depending on who the practitioners are. If somebody wants to go into the jungles of Bolivia and politicize using theatre, thats fine. If somebody wants to break down the barriers between audience and performer to make them all the same, there are many interesting ways of doing that. I was never sure about Grotowski and his methods that were passed down to Canadians through Richard Nieoczym (of Actors Lab), who had studied with him. Richard was very concerned with breaking down those barriers and changing the way in which theatre worked. Its easy for that type of work to become pretentious and an end in itself. Theres a lot of dogma involved in people saying, No. Theatre cannot be this. Theatre can be a million things and should be whatever anybody wants it to be. We used to say, when you strip theatre down to its absolute essential, it has an actor and a spectator, and thats the necessary condition. Somebody else comes along and tries to make the actor a spectator and vice versa. Then we have two actor-spectators, which may or may not be interesting depending on who the people are. Ive gone through that type of theatre, and we should be free to explore it. What we shouldnt do is shut up other people. I have strong opinions about any group, inside or outside the theatre, who try criticize any way of doing theatre as wrong. Theatre is a function of who we are and what our philosophies are, and not dependent on having a stage space. You dont need a stage to do theatre. Or rules. What you do need is a vision and an idea. SK When you founded Theatre Passe Muraille, did people try to tell you that what you were doing wasnt theatre? JG Well, yes. It would be as if you had done a post-grunge musical and took it to a conventional theatre where the audience of traditionalists watched it and said, Oooo. We dont like how this sounds. We dont like how this looks. And we dont like its themes. It would be threatening to them because it was coming from a new place or heart, and because it was of interest to a new generation. Youre always going to get one generation crashing up against another. When I was in my twenties, doing all this stuff, people in their forties wanted to see theatre that was more organized. They had a fixed idea of what a play was. My job was to express myself in the way I saw fit, as a young person in a changing world. There will always be established theatre and there will always be young people who want to do it differently. And people who will try to prevent them from doing just that. Its only natural. Appendix CANADIAN THEATRE ARCHIVE BOOK MODEL Basic Information Required on Theatre heatrCompanies: 1. Where are they located? (offices, theatre venue if permanent, venues of last few shows if use rotating rental space). Any important info about the physical plant (i.e. heritage building, former bakery, etc.) Size of venue, type of theatre space (thrust, proscenium, etc.) Is the seating flexible? What renovations have been done? 2. Size of yearly budget, including breakdown of sources: government funding (federal, municipal, provincial), Box Office, fund-raising (corporate/private sector). 3. Mandate or mission statement. Has it changed from original mandate? What is the driving philosophy behind the theatre. Has Mandate or mission statement. Has it changed from original mandate? What is the driving philosophy behind the theatre. Has it changed since the founding of the theatre? If so, when and how and why? 4. Name of Artistic Director and personal statement f since the founding of the theatre? If so, when and how and why? 4. Name of Artistic Director and personal statement fnt from her/him regarding the current state and future of Canadian theatre. The question might take the form Do you feel that Canadian Theatre is going to survive the 1990s and in what form? or Is theatre in Canada changing form and if so, is this a reflection of our changing world? Find out what the short term and long range goals of the company are. How many Artistic Directors has the theatre had? List them in chronological order with any pertinent facts about how they changed the theatre. 5. Who was t the theatre had? List them in chronological order with any pertinent facts about how they changed the theatre. 5. Who was the founding Artistic Director of the theatre? When? What was the premiere production? Who directed/designed it? Find a programme from the first season if possible. Anything interesting? A quotation or an actor whos gone on to other things, perhaps? 6. Get he first season if possible. Anything interesting? A quotation or an actor whos gone on to other things, perhaps? 6. Get a brochure for the current season (if a printed one exists) or a list of their programmed plays (e.g. a Season Press release). How much Canadian content is there? Have they fulfilled their mandate in their programming? How many shows are crowd-pleasers and how many take risks? How many are new plays? Did the theatre develop the play? 7. Does the theatre actively develop new pla and new playwrights? Is there a workshop programme? Who runs it and how is it funded? What is the criteria for selection of ys and new playwrights? Is there a workshop programme? Who runs it and how is it funded? What is the criteria for selection of pl֠+<)^bf[e`֠++)^ndgq>0 +>0 04S>p>0R/>0>R/>0   y informative.) Judith Rudakoff and Rita Much, Fair Play, Simon & Pierre Ltd., 1990. (Conversations with Canadian Woman Playwrights.) These two books will give you many examples of what types of questions you can ask a writer and what types of responses to expect! When interviewing, always ask if you may use a tape recorder. This will help you get your facts straight and will also give you an archival record of your work. I will bring in several examples of raw interview material on tape as examples. Please BE PREPARED. Do not call an Artistic Director or playwright for a quotation before youve done your preliminary research about their theatre or their work. Show them through your questions that youve done your homework and theyll be much more likely to help you out. Check and double check all facts. Be sure not to call someone the week before or the day after an opening night. If you are presenting on a Playwright, be prepared to discuss at least one of her/his plays in the context of the style and content of the work. Basic Information Required in Presentation: 1. Chronology of work in theatre, including plays, directii/or acting, other related work and anything in print. 2. Locate and articulate themes and images/symbols that recur in tng and/or acting, other related work and anything in print. 2. Locate and articulate themes and images/symbols that recur in thef tremble a bit at the word education. George Bernard Shaw said that the playwrights first job is to entertain, and the s plays. Ask a playwright if they are aware of a particular image that is in all their work (or theme, such as re-defining the notion of family or the need to connect to a Life Force in order to survive the modern world) and see most look amazed: most of a playwrights work in image-making comes from the unconscious; its up to critics and folks like you to articulate them in the real world! 3. Ask direct questions about the characters or an incident in a particular play rather than nebulous questio real world! 3. Ask direct questions about the characters or an incident in a particular play rather than nebulous questions about themes and ideas. The more specific your question, the more likely the writer is to relax, answer it and then go off on a riff about the very themes and ideas you want to hear about. 4. Try not to interrupt. We can always hear what you have to say later. Let the writer talk. Nod instead of verbalizing. If youre taping the interview, repeated oh reallys and uh-huhs are embarrassing and interrupt the flow of thought of the interviewee. 5. People think in half thoughts and half sentences. Also, psing and interrupt the flow of thought of the interviewee. 5. People think in half thoughts and half sentences. Also, people get de-railed really easily. Try to keep the interviewee on topic, even if it means saying something like, yes, very interesting, but now lets get back to my original question about XXX. If youre able, transcribe all notes and tapes immediately after the interview while its all still fresh in your mind and you havent had the time to interpret the material (i.e., re-write history...). 6. Set the playwright and her/his plays in historical context. Tremblay originally forbidding English productions of his plays in Quebec, for example. 7. Have the plays of the writer changed in any way if theyve written many over several years or decades? Do they stand the test of time or have they become museum pieces? Can they or are they able to be produced in an updated version? 8. Does the playwright have an aesthetic/dramatic theory or style that is uniquely their own? What is i updated version? 8. Does the playwright have an aesthetic/dramatic theory or style that is uniquely their own? What is it? 9. Do they frequently/always collaborate with one director or designer? Do the same actors always/frequently appear in the premillaborate with one director or designer? Do the same actors always/frequently appear in the premintly appear in the premiere of their plays? Are they affiliated with a particular theatre? More than one in different provinces? (such as Tremblay with Andre Brassard and Bill Glassco/John Van Burek and the Tarragon; George F. Walker and Factory Theatre and such actors as Peter Blais who is now even designing for him). 10. Read other interviews to see the types of questions that elicit pithy responses. Canadian Resource Library available at Playwrights Union of Canada 1996-97 Books Sean Baek Cahoots Theatre Theatre Ontario Shannon Bramer Beverly Simons Native Earth/Drew Taylor Krista Charbonneau Theatre Columbus Arthur Milner/GCTC Scott Dempster Young Peoples Theatre New Play Development Julia De Rose Jason Sherman Theatre Direct Carolyn Farrell Company Of Sirens Tomson Highway Ben Fitzgerald Factory Theatre Tim Gernstein Death Waits Women in MacIvors Work Paul Halferty Carbone 14 Daniel MacIvor Charles Humharles Humrles Hume Associated Designers of Canada Linda Griffiths Emma Humphrey Ronnie Burkett/Puppet Theatre Theatre Orangeville/Jim Betts Seamus Kelleher Theatre Passe My Ronnie Burkett/Puppet Theatre Theatre Orangeville/Jim Betts Seamus Kelleher Theatre Passe Muraille John Palmer Patti Kelly David S. Craig/Clown WholeLoaf/Counterclockwise Maria Lazzarino Judith Thompson Robert Desrosiers Jimmy Ng Commercial Theatounterclockwise Maria Lazzarino Judith Thompson Robert Desrosiers Jimmy Ng Commercial Theattre Marty Chan/Betty Quan charles pavia Robert Lepage Bill James Suzanne Ranson Caravan Theatre Janet Amos Rosemary Rowe Theatre Network Stewart Lemoine Michael Royle Fringe Festivals Sally Clark Zena Rudberg Playwrights Union of Canada Professsssional Association of Canadian Theatres (PACT) Rachel Seigel Opera Atelier National Ballet Tonja Tomkins Toronto Theatre Alliance Canadian Stage Brad Woods Story Telling/Helen Carmichael Porter Storytelling Festival 1995-96 Books Michelle Arsenaunce Canadian Stage Brad Woods Story Telling/Helen Carmichael Porter Storytelling Festivals 1995-96 Books Michelle ArsenaultJgU?/./ / p#=_` macsgB tempg: prefg2 extng* ctrlg" amnug strtg prntg =|`p-@ Ef$=x XBn Charlottetown Festival/Confederation Centre Diane Flacks Paul Bates Ronnie Burkett/Puppet Theatre in Canada Richard Rose/Necessary Angel Theatre Wally Blacklock John Mighton Theatre Columbus Maggie Borch Theatre Passe Muraille Feminisms in Canadian Theatre Melanie J. Campbell Sky Gilbert/Buddies in Bad Times Theatre Daniel MacIvor Katherine Clark Michael Springate Dianne Warren/Connie Gault Andrea Cubbage Tapestry Music Theatre/Theatre Autumn Leaf James Reaney Iain De Jong Playwrights Union of Canada Leila Kedrova Marcia Doucette Toronto Theatre Alliance National Theatre School of Canada Ryan Farrell Canadian Stage Company John Palmer Valerie Gilbert Funding Agencies in Canada Toronto Workshop Productions Lisa Gilpin Blyth Festival/Janet Amos Desrosiers Dance Theatre Theresia Heinzle John Van Burek/Theatre Francais de Toronto Factory Theatre Alison Miller Daniel Brooks Young Peoples Theatre Kevin Rees Augusta Company Fringe Theatre Festivals in Canada Ruth Rumack Dennis Foon TTarragon Theatre Aphra Zimmerman Ann-Marie MacDonald Nightwood Theatre Judith Rudakoff Judith Rudakoff (BA McGill, MA University of Alberta, PhD University of Toronto) maintains a national profile as a dramaturg through her work with new Canadian play SS0TְGlSS01%pSSPTְG!G#SS0TְS0pTְSP`Si;k9uSw77553311//--+Ɂ+ˁ)Ձ)wrights (as well as with many senior artists). Recently, she has worked with professional theatre companies from Whitehorse, Yukon to Charlottetown, PEI and points in between. She has also served as Literary Manager/Resident Dramaturg for Theatre Passe Muraille, Toronto Free Theatre and the Canadian Stage Company. Recent play-writing includes: Not Having, which was most recently produced in Vancouver, BC and is available through the Playwrights. It was showcased at the National Arts Centre Atelier in June/oduced in Vancouver, BC and is available through Playwrights Union of Canada. It was showcased at the National Arts Centre Atelier in June/955555S=]=_;i;k9u9w7755SS and is also available in Spanish as Sin Tener (produced in 1997 by Cubas Teatro Escambray, the first Canadian play ever produced in Cuba); The Brass Ring, a musical. In 1985, Rudakoff was co-nominated for a Dora Mavor Moore Playwriting Award for heeeeeeer adaptation of Jarrys Ubu the King, produced at Toronto Free Theatre. Play-writing grants and awards from Canada Council, Ontario Arts Council, Toronto Arts Council. Recent writing about Canadian Theatre includes Dangerous Traditions: A Passe Muraille Anthology (Blizzard Publishing, 1992) which chronicles the early days of one of Canadas ground-breaking alternate theatres; Fair Play: Conversations with Canadian Women Playwrights (Simon & Pierre, 1989), Questionable Activities: Canadian Theatre Artists Interviewed by Canadian Theatre Students (Playwrights Union of Canada, 1997). She publishes regularly on contemporary Canadian theat in popular theatre magazines as well as academic journals. She has recently published articles about contemporary Cuban Theare in popular theatre magazines as well as academic journals. She has recently published articles about contemporary Cuban TheatrAEAG?Q?S=]=_;i;k9u9w7755SSe and Culture in national publications such as Theatrum, Canadian Theatre Review and CanPlay. Her featured article on Cubas Teatro Escambray appears in the international publication TDR: A journal of performance studies (T149). With her broad-based knowlledge of and active involvement in the current Canadian theatre scene, Rudakoff is regularly asked to speak about her experiences and give Playwriting and Dramaturgy Workshops at such diverse locations as the Stratford Shakespeare Festival, the Canadian Correctional Institution in Whitehorse, Yukon, the Atlantic Playwrights Resource Centre, the Playwrights Workshop Montreal, the Saskatchewan Playwrights Centre and the National Theatre School of Canada in Montreal. One of Canadas leading experts on Theatre in contemporary Cuba, Rudakoff lectured recently at Cubas International Festival of Theatre, at the Union of Writers in Havana and in Cienfuegos, Teatro Escambray, and has spoken of her experiences at the Faculty of Fine Arts Deans Hour and at Theatre Ontario. Rudakoff has served as the Canadian co-ordinator of the theatre component of a cross-disciplinary and cross-cultural initiative of exchanges between Canadian and Cuban artists facilitated by Cubas Council for the Performing Arts. She recently delivered a paper on Cultural Identity at the International Theatre Institute conference in Havana, Cuba. The Spanish translation of this paper appears in Tablas #3, 1996. Rudakoff is a member of Playwrights Union of Canada (and a former member of the National Council of Playwrights), Canadian Theatre Critics Association, and has served as Vice President of the Literary Managers & Dramaturgs of the Americas. She has also served terms on the Toronto Arts Council, the Advisory Committee of the Board of Directors of the Desrosiers Dance Theatre, Cultural Advisory Board of Canada-Cuba Culture and is the former Associate Dean of Fine Arts at York University in Toronto where she is an Associate Professor of Theatre and co-ordinates the Master of Fine Arts in Playwriting. Rudakoff has served as a Juror for Canadian Theatre organizations including Canada Council, Ontario Arts Council, Toronto Art Council, Theatre Ontario, Chalmers Foundation (New Canadian Play Awards). Daniel MacIvor Interview by Paughijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~      !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~      !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~      !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUn(  )   ""   { % _      !   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Those weeds are in flower. They're gonna go to seed. 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Y.Nould be livi.orry free in one of my apartments with no snow and no lawn and no upkeep -- just a key to the frQuestionable Activitiesmykprsnt{count -16 roll systemdict/setcolortransfer known {cstf}{stf p3}ifelse setcolorscreen} {count -4 roll stf setscreen}ifelse/ns F def}if}def /setclp{np 0 0 m ct1 99 get 0 ne{ct1 0 ct1 99 get getinterval cvx exec}if ct2 ctz Q O֠++)^֠ K5`֠++)^֞ II6B#֠++)^֜G!GF`֠++)^*֚#EQuestionable Activitiescbnd{72 72 mtx defaultmatrix dtransform abs exch abs 2 copy lt{exch}if /devpxwd 72 3 -1 roll div def/languagelevel where{pop languagelevel} {1}ifelse 2 ge{pop 256}{/currentcolorscreen where {pop currentcolorscreen p2 3{3 index 2 c c @_+d֠++)^֠ K}}} n be_ p+p0Questionable Activities lt{exch}if pop/maxblnd X}B /setsepval{dup -1 eq{pop aload pop setcmykcolor} {setcustomcolor}ifelse currentgray}B /setcompval{dup -1 eq{pop aload pop} {exch aload p2 4{4 index mul 4 1 roll}repeat 5 -1 roll pop}ifelse}B /blnd{dup/blx{{{ ANFORD vP00'Xate that's r| +L֠++)^֠ K`֠++)^֞ IIQuestionable Activitiesp m1 m0 sub abs 2 copy lt {exch m1 m0/@1 X/@2 X}if pop y1 y0 sub abs lt{y1 y0/@1 X/@2 X}if}if @1 @2 blmode 2 eq{1 exch sub exch 1 exch sub}if 2 copy lt{exch}if sub maxblnd mul round cvi dup dup/blstp X 0 eq{pop 1}if /blw 256 blst+)^B֠++)^zC֠++)^x֠++)^v֠++Questionable Activities[]0 p 0 a blw dup dup devpxwd dup add add o 2 div blstp 1 add blmode 2 eq{{c0 m0 y0 k0 setcmykcolor dup 0 m 0 256 rl n 1 index add /c0 c0 cstp add def/m0 m0 mstp add def/y0 y0 ystp add def/k0 k0 kstp add def}repeat} {{k0 blmode 0֠++ᡐR֠++)^P֠++)^NA֠++)^L{{Questionable ActivitiesF} {pop dup length 6 eq{dup 0 5 getinterval exch 5 get}{0 4 getinterval -1}ifelse T}ifelse}{T}ifelse {dup -1 eq{F}{1 index docust exch pop}ifelse}if 5 -2 roll dup -2 eq{doregblnd{exch dup length 1 sub get 1 exch sub exch T F} {po$֠+)^z%%d`֠++)^x##eB֠++)^v!!֠++)^t`Questionable Activities {dup -2 eq{pop}{setsepval}ifelse 3 1 roll dup -2 eq{pop}{setsepval}ifelse exch 1 blnd} {setcompval 6 -2 roll setcompval 8 -4 roll 2 blnd}ifelse}B /cctp{cvlit/f2 X cvlit/f1 X /f12 f1 length f2 length add array def f12 0 f1 putinte)^Vʐ,e֠++)^TǀрA`֠++)^RӀ݀B>֠++)^P߀P`֠++)^NQuestionable Activitiest -4 roll}ifelse cleartomark}if cps ovp trp crntc currentlinewidth currentlinecap currentlinejoin currentdash exch aload length pnm pnsv pnsh 2t aload pop 2a aload pop mx2 aload pop mx3 aload pop imx aload pop mtx currentmatrix alhat? `Pk, do p@Pmakes p Pn'. 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